quads

shelljo · #1 03/30/05, 02:22 PM

Our 4 year old doe had quads a week ago tuesday. Shes a nubian, this was her second kidding. First time was simple, easy and by the book. 3 kids that time. I'm wondering if I can plan on 4 or 5 kids NEXT year... O my.

We had to assist, as they were coming out in pairs. Waited a little long to go in, but really thought she'd deliver by herself. She didn't. But, thought all was well. We saw all 4 nurse slightly, she was so engorged, that I really watched. Did give a baby bottle to the smallest, which was also the first born. Wednesday, the two smallest were the most vocal, but were up and moving. Never saw anyone nurse that day, but wasn't too worried. The wind blew like the dickens all wed, since our shed doesn't have closeable doors, I hung a quilt up to block the wind. We had made a deadwall out of hay bales, but it was awfully drafty in there, and I worried about that.

Thursday am, when DH went out to feed, he fo und the littlest kid dead and the next smallest (2nd born) near death. I brought the little guy in, got some milk replacer (Mom was antsy and wouldn't let me milk her). He hung on till 10 that morning. I think I got some milk in his lungs, as after his death, some came out his nose and mouth. He really never had that sucking reflex during the time I had him in the house. I didn't have a good bottle for him, no feeding tubes or anything. I really beleive that the wind contribituted to the deaths of these little ones. Feel awful that I probably killed one. But, since I never saw them nurse the first full day of life, maybe they never ate either. Just don't know.

I do know that next year, I will have a feeding tube and will have the right sized bottles and nipples. I'll be more prepared.

The surviving two are doing so well, running and playing "King of the feed pan". Momma is doing well, she has PLENTY of milk. In fact, she looks just miserable, to me anyway. I'm thankful that my breasts aren't between my legs!

Was upset by the loss of these two babies, and just wanted to share. If anyone has any other insights as to why these two died, I'm open to advise, or other experiences.

mpillow · #2 03/30/05, 03:15 PM

We make a lean-to doghouse out of a sheet of plywood if its real cold(Maine) in the goat stalls. How cold is it in Kansas this time of year? Drafts are bad for goats but I would think that you would be in the 50's at least where you are.
Do you think moms engorgement made it too much work for the smaller ones to nurse? I would have milked her out if she was getting full before kidding. How is her udder now?

Its hard to lose babies but there is always a lesson to learn....poor sucking is also a sign of selenium dificiency.

windyhollowfarm · #3 03/30/05, 03:43 PM

Poor sucking reflex can also be due to chilled kids.

When tube feeding I detatch the end of the tube from the syringe and after the other end of the tube is placed in the kids stomach I place the detatched end in a class of water to see if bubbles come up. If I see bubbles I know I am in the lungs. Also, I warm up the end of the tube going in so that it is more flexible.

I had to tube for the first time last year to quads from a Nubian doe, and it was scary!!! I lost a buckling out of that kidding about 2-4 weeks after the birth. I still have no idea how he died.

If a kid's mouth is cold then I would check its temp. to make sure it isnt hypothermic. I had two kids born in 2003 with temps. of the high to mid 90's ten minutes after birth. Those kids needed immediate care, and to be put in the house where it was warm.

I know keep a thermometer on hand when a doe is kidding to check a temp. if necessary.

You can keep kids in a draft free place, make sure they are dried off, make sure they are nursing or if you bottlefeed get colostrum in them ASAP, just observe them for awhile to make sure they are active and up. If I have any doubts I take kids up to the house immediately. Better to be safe than sorry.

shelljo · #4 03/30/05, 03:57 PM

Wind gusts that day were up to 50 mph. It was probably 35-40 degrees, so with the wind chill, pretty cool.

I did learn from this. I will be more prepared next year. Just wish we didn't have to lose two kids this time. I learned that you always prepare for the worst, and assume it will happen! I assumed that we'd have NO troubles...

Thanks for the replies!

TexCountryWoman · #5 03/30/05, 05:19 PM

I am sorry you lost two of your four little goats. I would be so miserable over that desite the fact that that is often the way of the farm. If I have a goat that is very engorged, I milk her out enough for the kids to get a grip on the teat. Often they will favour one teat over the other (some teats have one hole that is bigger than the other and the milk comes out easier on that side). On my heavy milkers, I go ahead and milk out all the colostrum and freeze it every day (the kids will still have plenty) to prevent the mom from getting mastitis. I had mastitis myself with each of my four children. I wouldn't wish THAT on a goat! I begin milking once a day right off every morning and the kids stay with mom 24 hours a day right now. They are still little. The mother is actually thrilled to be milked out each day and looks forward to the relief it brings. I am getting about a gallon a day with 16% feed and browse. I could up the feed and get more but my hands are out of milking shape and I have another milker ready to give birth any day now so don't need more milk. I am certainly not as strong in the hands as I was by the end of last year! I could milk goat after goat and now I cramp up and have to push myself through it! Your post gave me food for thought as I have 2 does who look as though they could have triplets or more. They are to term so they shouldn't have premies. Good luck with your endeavors.

eggladyj · #6 03/31/05, 01:31 AM

So sorry about the loss of the two little babies! It sounds like they may have become chilled, I had one of trips that did that and thankfully :worship: I had a seasoned goat friend here and she advised me to pull the kid, tube her, get her warm and try to put her back with the mom later when she was stronger. The day was much like yours with the wicked winds and I ended up keeping her in as she was so tiny, maybe a pound if she was lucky, and now lives happliy in the garage in a nice box and goes outside during the day with a buddy to romp in the sun. Next time you will be more prepared, you did the best you could at the time I'm certain.

Jeannine