Dewormer questions

TimberWolf · #1 03/27/05, 04:38 PM

I would like to deworm our Nubian wether, but am not sure what product I should use. He was neglected & is still very thin. He was rescued by a concerned lady, from whom we adopted him. She had dewormed him before we got him, about 2 months ago. Considering his condition & past care, what would the best option be?

Thanks much!

bethlaf · #2 03/27/05, 04:59 PM

have you done a fecal to see if he needs it ?
if not, that would be the first step , or easier check his gums are they pink or white? pink is normal , white is not, then check the golden parts of his eyes, if you see what look like black lines in there, then yes he will need an ivomec wormer , otherwise, no he just needstime to gain some condition, remeber he is a dairy breed so he is always gonna look a bit thin ,

i assume youre not feeding him grain , since he is a wether, but give him as much hay as he will eat, and he will put on the weight and condition , coat imporvements will be seen in about 6 months, it takes that long for the new coat to show, same with hooves, make sure he is trimmed up , and soon his hooves will look glossy like a healthy goats should look

TimberWolf · #3 03/28/05, 12:28 PM

Thanks for your response.

No fecal test. I figured coming from his previous living conditions he was likely to have worms & at this point to just deworm him. I did check his gums, they are pale pink...would that be considered "pink" or "white"? I am not sure what you mean by black lines in the golden part of the eyes (ie what they would look like), but I did see a black/dark mark in the gold above his pupil.

It is not that he just looks thin, it's that his spine & ribs are very easily seen & felt. I know it will take time for him to gain weight, but I want to give him the best circumstances to improve. Correct, he gets no grain, but he gets all the hay he wants. He is quite picky about his hay

. His coat is remarkably shiny, but he does have dandruff & is a bit "bleached" (he is black). Not sure what his hooves look like right now as far as sheen, they have been dirty. I just trimmed him a few days ago. Need to get some good hoof shears.

jill.costello · #4 03/28/05, 02:41 PM

Hi -

If he is THAT thin, I might try a natural fat supplement... like rice bran... There are several good products out there (mostly marketed for horses) "Natural Glo" and "MoorGlo" are two examples. Just read the labels carefully on whatever you choose to make quite sure there's no "added vitamins"- just a straight fat supplement using rice bran and/or flax, etc.

He would only need the smallest "treat" of it 2x per day- like just a half cup, but I think it would help his condition faster than just hay. (and might improve his coat, as well)

Good luck -Jill

Milking Mom · #5 03/28/05, 03:33 PM

1% Injectable ivermectin given orally (by mouth) at 2cc/100# body weight or Cydectin Cattle Pour on given ORALLY ( do not pour on) at 1cc/25# body weight. You could probably buy just a dose of this from someone who has a cattle herd or a larger goat herd. These are 2 good wormers for goats. Safegard and those white paste wormers aren't really very good for goats, too much immunity built up to them and you have to triple dose them for goats. You could also add a nice meat goat pellet to his diet that has ammonium chloride in it to prevent urinary calculi in bucks.

okgoatgal2 · #6 03/28/05, 08:02 PM

if you could locate some de, it will help, as will putting some loose minerals (or at least a mineral block) out for him.

TimberWolf · #7 03/31/05, 11:28 AM

Hi Jill,
Yes, he is quite thin

. It's funny you mention adding rice bran...I have some that I was feeding my horse & wondered if it was ok for a goat. Thought it might help him gain weight, improve condition, etc. I was actually going to ask the forum for insight on that. Thanks! What I have is called Max-E-Glo, it is stabilized (calcium balanced) rice bran with vitamin E, no other ingredients, no preservatives. Apparently quite tasty too

TimberWolf · #8 03/31/05, 12:39 PM

Thanks Milking Mom

I guess I can ask around to see if I can buy a dose off someone. I don't know anyone around here with a large number of goats. A neighbor down the road has lots of sheep. Several places have cattle. Yeah, all I have are paste dewormers for horses, & right now that is only pyrantel pamoate & ivermectin/praziquantel. I think the lady I got him from probably used an ivermectin paste from her horse.
I have been looking at goat feeds locally & have only found grains. I am planning to buy a loose mineral from the mill that includes ammonium chloride.

TimberWolf · #9 03/31/05, 01:00 PM

Thanks for your suggestion okgoatgal2. I have thought about DE, but I think I need something a bit more potent at this time, due to his background. He gets loose minerals (cow/goat at the moment, looking into specifically goat from the mill), plus access to a livestock mineral block & horse mineral brick.

MoBarger · #10 03/31/05, 01:34 PM

Ivermectin and cydectin may be overkill for your little guy. They are de rigeur in TX but in OH your needs may be different.
First and foremost get thee to a fecal exam! See what you are dealing with first. If you have a vet school in your area they might do them for free, otherwise it could cost you $5-10.
Then when you know what you are dealing with, prescribe the cure. Double check with your extension or maybe you have a good goat vet around to see if Safeguard is ok in your area before you go that route.
Upping his nutrition in the meantime, no matter what his parasite load is, is a good thing.
Good luck!

tnborn · #11 04/02/05, 09:05 AM

Hi,
I worm my goats with d.e, and I mix this with 6% goat feed, alfalfa pellets, corn, sunflower seeds all together. Put minerals out (goat mineral). Sometimes I worm with dectomax alternate with ivomac. Might can use karosyrup poured over the feed to increase energy. Sounds like worms and malnutrition that your goats have. Be careful not to founder the goats. Add new food in small amounts. Good luck with your goats.
tnborn

animal_kingdom · #12 04/02/05, 09:54 AM

sorry for my ignorance...
what is "de"?

Thanks!

TimberWolf · #13 04/02/05, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MoBarger

Ivermectin and cydectin may be overkill for your little guy. They are de rigeur in TX but in OH your needs may be different.
First and foremost get thee to a fecal exam! See what you are dealing with first. If you have a vet school in your area they might do them for free, otherwise it could cost you $5-10.
Then when you know what you are dealing with, prescribe the cure. Double check with your extension or maybe you have a good goat vet around to see if Safeguard is ok in your area before you go that route.
Upping his nutrition in the meantime, no matter what his parasite load is, is a good thing.
Good luck!

Really? I certainly don't want to hurt him. I know, I really should get a fecal test. It's just I wanted to deworm him asap (have horses to consider too), & getting to our vet is not simple...pretty far from us & not on our way to anything (& with the price of gas I'd rather not make that trip for just that). I will see if the vet close by will run the test without my being a client (went there before & hated the vet that saw my animals). I was hoping to be able to deworm him with a broad-range dewormer for right now.
Yes, good nutrition is essential. That's better than he did have!

Thanks much!

TimberWolf · #14 04/02/05, 03:23 PM

Hi tnborn,
If I was not concerned that he might be infested with worms & need something more immediate acting, I would happily use D.E. Also, if I could get DE right now, I would go ahead & start him on it to help.
I do not feed him any grain. I have thought about alfalfa pellets, but he already is very picky about hay & I am quite sure he would reject it altogether then, & hold out for the pellets! I have also considered providing BOSS. Right now I have been feeding him a couple ounces of rice bran each day, which he *loves*. I add his loose minerals to it, so he has been getting those regularly now (had been rejecting them). I don't think he needs Karo syrup...he has plenty of energy

.
Yes, my goat (only one) is malnurished & likely has worms. As I said, he was a rescue case. Poor guy. Thanks for the caution, I am well aware of gradual feed change requirements; I own horses & other animals. Have had pets all my life

Thanks!

TimberWolf · #15 04/02/05, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by animal_kingdom

sorry for my ignorance...
what is "de"?

Thanks!

Not at all! It even took me a minute to realize what "de" was referring to, & I am even familiar with the stuff, lol! It was the lower case that threw me.
DE is Diatomaceous Earth, a very fine natural powder made of the fossilized remains of diatoms (microscopic sea creatures). It is abrasive to the protective layer of parasites, flies, bugs, etc, & causes them to eventually die, but does not hurt people or animals.

animal_kingdom · #16 04/02/05, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimberWolf

Not at all! It even took me a minute to realize what "de" was referring to, & I am even familiar with the stuff, lol! It was the lower case that threw me.
DE is Diatomaceous Earth, a very fine natural powder made of the fossilized remains of diatoms (microscopic sea creatures). It is abrasive to the protective layer of parasites, flies, bugs, etc, & causes them to eventually die, but does not hurt people or animals.

duh. I feel stupid. I know what diatomaceous earth is. Just don't know all your abbreviations. We just call things what they are. I'll have to work on my abbreviations!

I've read about it but never used it because no one I know uses it to be able to compare things with. Could you tell me how you feel it works for you?

Thanks!
Mama

Dee · #17 04/03/05, 12:50 PM

I live in NJ and had a regular worming scedular for my goats. Safeguard and Ivermectin. I didn't worry about worms until a doeling died from them. After worming with Cydectin, ALL my goats put on weight. Depending on the problem, it might not be overkill.

When you take your fecal for testing, wait for the results. Your vet will be able to provide what you will need then. I got the Cydectin orginally from my vet.

Since this guy probably never had anything, you could probably use commercial wormer that hasn't become resistant. Keep in mind that if the vet suggests something else, you will have to wait to use it if you have already given a commercial product. By commercial wormer, I mean a horse paste or Ivermectin injectable orally.

Let me tell you, it is terrible to lose a kid to worms when you believe you are doing the right thing all along. It is so nice that you are doing this rescue. When he gets good and healthy, I bet he'll make a good pet for your horses.