Coyotes

urbanfarmer · #1 12/06/04, 08:00 AM

In my area of Texas, coyote populatoins are exploding. People have lost their pets to coyote packs.

If I get a few goats for hobby and profit on my 20 acres, would I find it impossible to protect them? I do have a large shepherd mixed dog, and perhaps he would keep those coyotes away.

The coyotes have been seen in broad day light.

Here is a link to an article about them in Houston and Austin.

COYOTE PROBLEM IN THE CITIES

susanne · #2 12/06/04, 08:13 AM

[QUOTE=urbanfarmer] I do have a large shepherd mixed dog, and perhaps he would keep those coyotes away.

/QUOTE]

one dog can not protect your herd. coyotes come in a pack and take your dog apart. happend in my area. two or three trained lifestock guard dogs would be better.
susanne

trickham · #3 12/06/04, 08:21 AM

Susanne is right. One dog (especially a shepherd mix) would not be adequate protection. If you can afford two or three livestock guardian dogs, that would be your best protection. If that is not possible, I would get a couple of llamas.

Galloping Goats · #4 12/06/04, 08:33 AM

Donkeys make great goat gaurds. They hate all dogs. If you get a young one they bond with the goat herd and become the protector. They will stomp a coyote to death. We have one and she doesn't even let our yard dog into the pasture. We have a goat pen that is field fencing and a large pasture that is electric wire for the donkey. We made a hole in the goat wire so they can go out with her but she can't get into their yard. If I come out and call to them and they don't come running, she herds them up tp me.

TexCountryWoman · #5 12/06/04, 10:19 AM

I am an hour east of Austin and use Great Pyrenees dogs and a herd of donkeys. I saw coyotes in Houston as far baxk as the 1970's running through inner-city parking lots near residential neighborhoods. But, then again, Houston is a jungle, what with the foliage and the bayou system.
The same "coyote discussion" is going on, where I just posted at length on the subject of coyotes at th Dairy Goat Index forum:

http://forums.chamoisee.atypedigital.com/

I think it a bit humerous that on the same news station coming out of Austin folks will complain about what to do with all the coyotes that "will eat their children", and then complain about what to do with all the feral cats that are collecting by the hundreds and thousands. I say, let nature take it's course. Those coyotes aren't after their children, but I am sure they have enjoyed a cat or two. If food is avaible, animals will come. In fact, that helps to explain the domestication of the dog and cat.

Donkeys do hate dogs. But if you slowly introduce them to your dog, through a fence over several weeks, they will accept the dog. Be patient, donkeys are very intelligent animals. I once had a flock of white ducks that the donkeys approved of. I added a new white duck without the donkeys knowledge and they killed the new one immediately as it "did not belong".

Milking Mom · #6 12/06/04, 07:19 PM

I was mowing pasture on the far side a few years ago and my aussie was over there with me. I was a couple pastures over from where he was taking a swim in one of the ponds. I came over a hill and as I reached the top I looked down toward the pond and on the south side of the pond there were 5 coyotes coming up around behind the pond dam surrounding my aussie. He was splashing and playing in the water and did not hear them. I shut the mower off and raised it up and threw that tractor in High 4th gear and hauled toward them as fast as I could go just a hollering. My aussie heard me coming and hollering and started to get out of the water and just as he came to the edge a couple of the coyotes met him. They saw me coming, but were more concerned about getting the dog than they were me coming at them in that big tractor. Coyotes are very brave in packs. I finally got them run off by running at them with the tractor and hollering, but they fully intended to kill my dog. What did Buddy do? Ran and got behind me and the tractor. After they ran off Buddy jumped up into the tractor with me and we went home. When I came back I brought a rifle from then on. There was a wolf (Wolf not coyote..a LOT larger) here stealing chickens a couple years ago and when the girls were in highschool my youngest daughter and one of her classmates were riding horses on our place and came back saying they saw a cougar. It was true..the tracks were huge. We only lost one calf and we attributed it to the coug but who knows? Cougars are moving probably due to the loss of their natural habitat...Too many people and buildings, not enough woods.

Thumper/inOkla. · #7 12/07/04, 12:24 PM

I'll jump on band wagon and say more than one dog, we have so many coy's that we have heard 3 packs on different locations on our farm or next to it,(maybe 1500ft to 3000ft away from the house/barn) at the same time.

I have also heard a pack spilt up and work their way in from multiple sides.

That is an experience to go through! It is dark, you can heard them yapping and the noise of the dry leaves as they move closer sometimes, and then they go quiet, all of a suddent the dog goes crashing by at top speed, and disappears into the dark tree line, there is the sound of fighting, and them the dog comes back, ears scaning the darkness, and off he goes in the opposite direction, barking off into the darkness, one small group of coys is yapping far over the hill, and the dog is going for them, then the other dog picks up a sound near by, and yaps a certain tone, and big dog Jacob (our alpha) comes charging back again, and this goes on for many hours during the night, sometimes Jacob takes off and the others follow and we hear fighting, they all come back pleased as punch, very tired but looking very happy. No signs of injury most of the time.

Freeholder · #8 12/08/04, 07:13 PM

I'll ditto the multiple dogs -- if coyotes are really a problem in your area, they will kill a lone dog pretty fast. One way to justify the extra expense of keeping several dogs is to do good research and buy a breeding pair or trio and sell a litter of puppies once in a while. If you select your dogs carefully, take good care of them, and breed sparingly, there is a demand for good quality working dogs. Just don't try to run a puppy mill!!

Kathleen

urbanfarmer · #9 05/28/06, 04:17 PM

Thanks for all the great advice. Sorry I am late getting back on here, but all of your posts with advice is still good.

My neighbor had his dog killed and his cats disappeared one by one. He is going to get at least 3 of those Great Pyrenees dogs.

The advice to have more than one dog and some donkeys is great. Thanks to everyone.

wooly1s · #10 05/28/06, 05:54 PM

Get thee to a llama rescue!!! Llamas specialize in coyote deterrent, are less expensive to keep than dogs, and will bond with your goat herd in days. We run 2 Great Pyrenees outside our pastures, and llamas inside. There are two threads going in goat and sheep forums about llama guardians...you might take a peek.
One of the biggest drawbacks of dogs is that most of us let them inside from time to time...and coyotes are great opportunists. Llamas are in the pasture 24/7.

tulsamal · #11 05/28/06, 07:21 PM

We've got 90 acres and around 50 to 70 Boer goats. (Actual number depends on the time of year.) We have one Great Pyrenees (three year old male) and one llama. Between the two of them, they do a good job.

I personally think you still have to give them a little active help. The goats are in our front 40 acres and the back 50 acres is wild. I like it that way because I deer hunt back there. But if I just ignored that area, it would become a staging area for the coyotes. So you have to get out there on occasion. It's best if you get an electronic call and actually set up a blind and kill a few of the darn things. But at least go out there and walk around. Be like a man and pee on things to leave your human scent! Sit down by the creek and enjoy plinking with 50 to 100 rounds. They will hear the noise and they will smell the gunpowder. They don't want to be near either one.

We had our biggest problem when the 50 acres next to our property was totally unoccupied. The coyotes could live and breed there without any real fear. Now the new owner comes out on an ATV every now and then and shoots them if he sees them. That's what you have to do.... push them back as far as you can from your border.

Gregg

Ark · #12 05/28/06, 08:16 PM

We only have 20 acres, but are surrounded by HUGE ranches with thousands of Boer goats. Our neighbor has 600 or so, and loses over one hundred kids every year to coyotes, wild pigs, mountain lions, and bob cats.
We havent lost a single kid - because our goats sleep right up next to the house. Our dog sleeps out there too, but she is just an almost deaf lab type dog.

TexCountryWoman · #13 05/28/06, 08:17 PM

We live real far out in the country and have tons of coyotes. We have 2 adult great Pyrenees and are training up another pup. We have not had a loss of a goat since we got the dogs. We also have donkeys, but on our 90 acres, they go off too far. The dogs stay up around us and the goats. The young pup is REAL bonded to the goats and in fact is going to make a better dog than his parents. A shepherd won't do, you need Pyrenees, and more than one.

Blue Oak Ranch · #14 05/28/06, 08:38 PM

My ranch security manager has FIVE huge shepherd and shepherd cross dogs. They patrol, and two are confirmed coyote killers. I haven't seen anything bigger than a ground squirrel since they arrived, and only one bobcat tried about 18 months ago and didn't get 20 feet from the fenceline. Our yotes are bold and smart, and the packs like my canyon because there's a perennial stream. They will split up and keep each dog busy at the fence breaks and gate gaps.

Luckily, I have chain link around my small place - only a little over 6 acres. I'm the only one that doesn't lose poultry or livestock in my area. Or farm equipment, for that matter - them two-legged coyotes stay out too. They chase off hawks and vultures as well.

But, if I had less secure fencing or a larger acreage...I'd get anatolians or pyrs in a heartbeat. As it is, if Anja moves, I'd be in trouble until I got a couple of trained dogs.

Cheers!

Katherine

ozark_jewels · #15 05/28/06, 10:37 PM

Get two or three Pyrenees. Buy them from working parents and raise them with the goats. A male and a female work best together. If you don't want pups, spay them early. If you have coyotes, you do need LGD's!!

ozark_jewels · #16 05/28/06, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wooly1s

One of the biggest drawbacks of dogs is that most of us let them inside from time to time...and coyotes are great opportunists. Llamas are in the pasture 24/7.

Thats not a drawback to dogs, thats a drawback to certain owners......my LGD's are in the pasture with the goats 24/7. They are friendly with me, but wouldn't want to come in the house even if I invited them, which I won't. They grew up with the goats and are very content with their place.

mberryrfd · #17 05/29/06, 01:30 AM

The Coyotes are here to along with cougar and bobcat,and lately a few bears.This has been a dry year, so they are all looking for food and water, and with this being rabbit heaven, not much we can due. We do have a Pyr. she is young but she is getting better I wouldnt dare bring her in the houseshe lives with the goats and likes it

TexCountryWoman · #18 05/29/06, 01:54 AM

There are cougars in these parts too and my pyrs have NEVER been invited in, even when they were first here as cute little white fluff balls, nope, they slept outside! Dogs do not come in the house, they have work do do outside!

**mygoat** · #19 05/29/06, 10:08 AM

Um, what if your goats would kill a puppy LGD? I know mine would.

mberryrfd · #20 05/29/06, 10:18 AM

We put our pup in and out at first. Not straight in even though she was raised with goats before we got her. We did have some problems seems like up and till last month with with the LGD and other problems like going after the new born kids. but that has ended with a mutual respect she now stays away from the kid I think momma taught her a lesson.At first there was the prob with the goats eating LGD food but that has ended to.