Milk not Foaming, mastitis Or?

[Honeybee]

Hi,

I've got a fairly new La Mancha doe that I am drying off before breeding season. We've had her for about 2 1/2 months. She was giving a gallon a day and was sold. Then the people who bought her sold her to me (they were keeping her all alone and she was crying all the time) She's adjusted well and seems happy and healthy. She was from a closed tested herd. But after moving each time her milk supply diminished. She was giving 2 quarts after she settled in to our home. Then a month ago she went to about a quart and a half then a quart. 2 weeks ago I decided to taper her off and let her dry up before having her bred and give her a good long rest.

But last week her milk quit foaming up when we milk her. It is sort of a more creamy color and consistency rather than stark white. There is no stringiness or lumpiness to the milk, I milked her into a clear glass container and let the milk flow down the side to get a good look.

She is eating well and seems in good spirits. Could this be caused by something other than mastitis or should I have her checked? I've never dealt with anything like that before. Could it be worms? She is 2, is eathing alfalfa grass mix hay (about 50/50), has minerals with selenium and gets cob when milked.

Thanks for looking,

Honeybee

[Kazahleenah]

Originally Posted by Honeybee

Hi,

I've got a fairly new La Mancha doe that I am drying off before breeding season. We've had her for about 2 1/2 months. She was giving a gallon a day and was sold. Then the people who bought her sold her to me (they were keeping her all alone and she was crying all the time) She's adjusted well and seems happy and healthy. She was from a closed tested herd. But after moving each time her milk supply diminished. She was giving 2 quarts after she settled in to our home. Then a month ago she went to about a quart and a half then a quart. 2 weeks ago I decided to taper her off and let her dry up before having her bred and give her a good long rest.

But last week her milk quit foaming up when we milk her. It is sort of a more creamy color and consistency rather than stark white. There is no stringiness or lumpiness to the milk, I milked her into a clear glass container and let the milk flow down the side to get a good look.

She is eating well and seems in good spirits. Could this be caused by something other than mastitis or should I have her checked? I've never dealt with anything like that before. Could it be worms? She is 2, is eathing alfalfa grass mix hay (about 50/50), has minerals with selenium and gets cob when milked.

Thanks for looking,

Honeybee

She may have banged her udder... is she with other goats that may have butted her? Sounds a bit like blood in the milk to me... anyone else have a suggestion? I'd watch her... see if she has other symptoms.
Amy

[debitaber]

she needs goat chow, not cob. that could be why her milk is going down hill, and pure alfalfa, not mix. dairy goats aren't horses. people try to feed them like horses and it can't be done., with out hurting the does. she needs goat minerials, not some made for goat or sheep but just for goats, she needs goat feed, not sweet feed. swwet feed, is for horses. goats need goat feed. and pure alfalfa hay.
It is just like this, you would't sit down to a dinner of chicken scratch mix now would you? well you would say no that is silly , scratch is for chickens, well, you would be right. each one has their own feed for a reason. gost feed has more coppere in it, and goats need it. they need different feed than other animals. and cob, i don't give that to my hens or hogs, but I guess you could. you need to get goat feed, and goat minerals, and good alfalfa hay, 2nd or 3d cut, or alfalfa pellets, to give to your goats, then , you might get her milk back up where it belongs. all the cob will do is add weight. and that isn't always good.

[Rosarybeads]

Originally Posted by Honeybee

Hi,

I've got a fairly new La Mancha doe that I am drying off before breeding season. We've had her for about 2 1/2 months. She was giving a gallon a day and was sold. Then the people who bought her sold her to me (they were keeping her all alone and she was crying all the time) She's adjusted well and seems happy and healthy. She was from a closed tested herd. But after moving each time her milk supply diminished. She was giving 2 quarts after she settled in to our home. Then a month ago she went to about a quart and a half then a quart. 2 weeks ago I decided to taper her off and let her dry up before having her bred and give her a good long rest.

But last week her milk quit foaming up when we milk her. It is sort of a more creamy color and consistency rather than stark white. There is no stringiness or lumpiness to the milk, I milked her into a clear glass container and let the milk flow down the side to get a good look.

She is eating well and seems in good spirits. Could this be caused by something other than mastitis or should I have her checked? I've never dealt with anything like that before. Could it be worms? She is 2, is eathing alfalfa grass mix hay (about 50/50), has minerals with selenium and gets cob when milked.

Thanks for looking,

Honeybee

I've noticed this with my two nannies as well. Their milk production has gone way down, and I think the milk is creamier than it was. I suspect that what you are dealing with is that the milk is overall creamier and not as white because of it. If goats are anything like humans, they would have certain glands that produce the milkfat, and the rest is not as rich. Of course, this is complete speculation, I don't really know. Sounds like you are feeding them well to me, I had my goats on goat feed and it didn't make a difference, and the molasses in the feed gave it a strong flavour I didn't like.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

The longer a doe is in milk the more butterfat her milk contains. None of my does have foamy milk right now like they do in early and mid lactation. Their milk also feels thicker on the tongue and makes more cheese. Staph/mastitis would give you bitter milk or milk with poor keeping qualities. Because you are not milking her regularly she will dry up, her milk will also have poorer quality to it, being in the udder past the 12 or 24 hours. It's fine to drink, but will contain for cells. As a doe dries less and less fluid goes into the udder, and if you milk out a doe who is dry it is not normal milk. the liquid is absorbed back into the udder leaving thick solids.

A diet of cob (corn, oats and barley) and a mixed grass hay is nearly the perfect diet to dry up this doe, and especially because she is being dried while not yet even bred. Now if she was 100 days bred and drying like my does will be, well then yes, you had better have alfalfa hay or alfalfa pellets with the cob. I don't feed cob, but it's nearly the same, it simply has a good mineral mix with it (plus minerals out in the barn) some soy and alfalfa pellets. I think cob or what we call a horse dry mix, is a much perferable menu over any goat chow. My label states, corn oat and barley, goat chows contain only protein plant products, roughage grain byproducts, and little real grain. So you get more bang for your buck with cob and know what your goats are eating.
Course I only use the carbs and energy from the grain for milkers, growing kids and getting bucks back into shape after a long breeding season.

Once you no longer want to milk the doe, stop milking her. Worm her, check with other breeders in your area to see if they give selenium injections to their does prebreeding. Ask them what minerals they use.

Your doing a great job. You are lucky she had even this much lactation with this many moves. Dry her up, give her some TLC, get her bred, then next year she can stay in milk the whole year. Vicki

[debitaber]

I would never give a goat horse feed. goats need different menerails and vits. than horses. check with your vet. if the vet. is a goat vet, he or she will tell you. there is a big differance in a horse and a goat.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

Sooo You really think there is a nutritionist at Purina/Acco/Lone Star/Wendlands etc., that has done studies, blood analysists, copper liver ensyme studies on goats, and are putting the very best of everything into the bag because it has goat on the label? Nothing is further than the truth. Bags that say goat on them contain a mineral mix called calf pack. Most sacked feeds contain the mineral called calf pack in them. There is no "goat mineral" yes some companies like Sweet Lix have made up their own, but 99% of goat minerals and the goat chows are formulated with sheep and goat information, and you dont' have to be on these kinds of boards or have goats for more than 5 minutes to find out what an error that is.

Horse grains contain more selenium, copper, clovite, kelp, yeast, probiotics, than any goat mineral or grain does. Why? Because unless it is a custom mix, the answer is because it can. All mills are under FDA guidelines of what they can and can't put into floor orders, the mass produced grains that go to all feed stores in their area. So using calf or horse grains where these numbers are more to begin with just makes logical sense.

Most chows, like Purina and Acco DoeLac, contain huge amounts of molassas, we know that this destroys rumen flora because of the acidity it causes in the rumen. We also know goats need more selenium than what is found in the sacks. Everytime you purchase a sack of these kinds of feed, (one that is not menued but has plant protein, roughage, byproduct labels) you are really switching feeds, something else we know that is not healthy for the goat. Up until about a year ago, there wasn't enough copper, NONE, in goat feeds because of the sheep information. Most vets never see goats in vet school, so asking even my vet what mineral mix to use, she would likely tell you to call me!

I don't have time to mix this and that, add this or that, I am not going to give 20 milkers plus kids and bucks pills by mouth, if I had 5 goats I still would not want to give them pills by mouth daily. It's a guess at most, and it gets expensive. Yes beet pulp is wonderful for your aged does with no teeth, and it supplies energy, but does it improve the total diet, or just make the total diet just that much more expenisve. I feed BOSS to my milkers to supply extra fat during early lactation, but do I need this or want this added cost and trip to Walmart to purchase it all year? No. Supplementing has to be proven to me to improve something, if it simply adds cost, forget it. Why I feed the Bluebonnet Tech Master Minerals is because I now longer have to purchase Diamond V Yeast or Kelp and mix 3 things together, it is all in my mineral mix. Although I do rely heavily on my mineral mix to up the copper living in a defficient corridor of the US, I want my milkstand grain and alfalfa pellets they eat to contain their dietary nutrition. It's simply better for them to eat alfalfa pellets to get their protein and calcium than to eat a plant protein byproduct in their grain and calcium carbonate in a mineral mix.

But....it also shows how really versatile goats are, they can live down the road tied to trees eating the easement from the highway, kid, nurse their kids and supply family milk doing it. Live at your house doing wonderfully..........And also live here Vicki

[debitaber]

thank you mistress vicki. oh please. wern't you on goat talk?

[Stacy Adams]

Originally Posted by debitaber

there is a big differance in a horse and a goat.

I used to have my goats on a Horse Dry Mix.. Corn, Oats & Barley.. and then I found that with only a few goats, it was cheaper for me to mix my own..
The Purina stuff is Plant By-Products, Grain By-Products (by-products of what?)and a whole slew of stuff I can't even pronounce.. me, I like knowing what's going in the animals that are producing my milk, I even mix my own minerals using Kelp, Diamond VXP yeast and a few other things..
If a goat is not a horse, (duh) then why does one use horse wormers on their goats? or cow wormers for that matter? because they work, that's why.

I think it suffice to say that we all do things differantly for our girls, heck, I know of 5 breeders in my general vicinity, and none of us do it the same either, but all our girls are healthy, have shiny coats, produce copious ammounts of delicious milk and usually two healthy kids a year... so hey, we must be doing somethin right!!

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

thank you mistress vicki. oh please. wern't you on goat talk?

.................................................. ....

At one time or another I have been to most forums, I only really stick around on 3, here, Nubian Talk on yahoo groups and the chamiosee list (when we aren't fighting our list server. Vicki

[Honeybee]

Originally Posted by debitaber

thank you mistress vicki. oh please. wern't you on goat talk?

I think Vicki's knowledge shows clearly in her goats/business. I appreciate her taking the time to answer. Whether it's here or else where anyone who takes the time to share knowledge like this they've worked hard to gain is a blessing.

I appreciate her advice. If she is also on goat talk then they too are blessed by what she has time to share.

[Honeybee]

Thank you all for the replies.

Originally Posted by Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

The longer a doe is in milk the more butterfat her milk contains. None of my does have foamy milk right now like they do in early and mid lactation. Their milk also feels thicker on the tongue and makes more cheese. Staph/mastitis would give you bitter milk or milk with poor keeping qualities. Because you are not milking her regularly she will dry up, her milk will also have poorer quality to it, being in the udder past the 12 or 24 hours. It's fine to drink, but will contain for cells. As a doe dries less and less fluid goes into the udder, and if you milk out a doe who is dry it is not normal milk. the liquid is absorbed back into the udder leaving thick solids.

A diet of cob (corn, oats and barley) and a mixed grass hay is nearly the perfect diet to dry up this doe, and especially because she is being dried while not yet even bred. Now if she was 100 days bred and drying like my does will be, well then yes, you had better have alfalfa hay or alfalfa pellets with the cob. Vicki

This makes a lot of sense to me. Her milk tasted fine and kept fine as well. If she did have a problem or infection wouldn't it progress and her condition worsen? Or would it smolder and continue when she freshens?

She's in with the buck now and seems to be doing just fine. Our hay crop was ment to be 50/50 grass alfalfa mix but we ended out buying too much seed and seeded it twice. We had a huge rain storm a while later that washed a lot of seed away. We weren't sure what we'd get if anything. As it turned out this year (a full year after planting) we had a mix that looked at least 3/4 alfalfa 1/4 grass (if you don't count some weeds here and there ) I give them enough hay that they can eat all day if they want to. They waste quite a bit but the waste is mostly weed and stems and it serves as bedding. Since the cost is so much lower than buying hay it seems to be working out well.

Do you think with this mix I'll still need to add straight alfalfa or just feed more hay or?

Originally Posted by debitaber

I would never give a goat horse feed. goats need different menerails and vits. than horses. check with your vet. if the vet. is a goat vet, he or she will tell you. there is a big differance in a horse and a goat.

I don't think the fact that people feed cob to horses automaticly makes it strictly a horse feed. I know what's in that mix and what my goats are eating. When I think the molassess is unecessary I can purchase dry cob. Corn, oats and barley are also people food as is molassess. It's never bothered any of my animals and they all seem to be doing very well on it when they are getting it. I prefer knowing what's going into my goats, particularly if what comes out of them is going to go into me and my family. Their minerals are given seperately and is a mix made for goats.

Originally Posted by Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

Sooo You really think there is a nutritionist at Purina/Acco/Lone Star/Wendlands etc., that has done studies, blood analysists, copper liver ensyme studies on goats, and are putting the very best of everything into the bag because it has goat on the label? Nothing is further than the truth.........
.............
But....it also shows how really versatile goats are, they can live down the road tied to trees eating the easement from the highway, kid, nurse their kids and supply family milk doing it. Live at your house doing wonderfully..........And also live here Vicki

I know Vicki is correct and although I don't know the specifics of the mixes I had a good friend that worked at a feed, seed and fert plant many years ago. It reminded me a little of how you don't really want to know what's in a hot dog. I am much more comfortable knowing exactly what's going into my goats.

Thank you all for the advice.

Blessings

[Freeholder]

Just a couple of comments here: Vicki has been around for quite a while, and makes her living with her goats. If they weren't in good condition she wouldn't be able to do that, so I figure she's got to be doing something right, and her advice is to be taken seriously. She's one of the few people I would go to with any goat questions I might have.

Weeds, as long as they aren't poisonous, will actually improve goat hay, in my opinion. Many of them are much more nutritious than straight grass or alfalfa hay, and often they are also more palatable. Plus, I believe that just like with people, a diet that has some variety to it is not only healthier but more interesting.

Kathleen