Re: Lutalyse -Vicki, this one's for you!

[moonspinner]

I had inquired about dosage and timetable for using lutalyse to abort an accidental mating. Vicki, your advice came in so handy during my request for the drug at the vet's. This is initially what he told me: 3/4 ccs for a 50# nigerian. I immediately jumped on this telling him my goat experts say it's supposed to be 2ccs for any sized goat. The vet also flatly said lutalyse will NOT work after ten/11 days. I also told him of goaters' experiences refuting this, that it can be effective even after a full cycle. So he consulted with another vet and I got my way - 2ccs! Thank you Vicki! I have one more question: if the drug does not work, does it/can it cause any harm to the developing fetuses?

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

The way lutelyse works, if you give a good muscle shot after the embryo's attach in the uterus, 7 to 11 days, you won't have a pregnancy. Obviously if the shot is given incorrectly, on the wrong days (too early) or the drug is not pulled from the right vial, it would do nothing to the pregnancy, hence not harming the fetus. Vicki

[moonspinner]

I have heard of many cases though where the pregnancy continues despite giving the drug at the proper dose and the right way. Wouldn't there be a point where the lutalyse (at least by itself) would not abort the kids? Is there a cutoff point (say after several weeks into the pregnancy?) where it just won't work?

Originally Posted by Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians

The way lutelyse works, if you give a good muscle shot after the embryo's attach in the uterus, 7 to 11 days, you won't have a pregnancy. Obviously if the shot is given incorrectly, on the wrong days (too early) or the drug is not pulled from the right vial, it would do nothing to the pregnancy, hence not harming the fetus. Vicki

[MARYDVM]

In cattle, around mid pregnancy, the placenta begins producing enough progesterone to maintain the pregnancy if the primary source (CL on the ovary) is removed. So the only reliable way to induce abortion after that is with dexamethasone. I imagine the situation is similar in goats, but don't have any information on the precise timing of the hormonal changes.

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

Lutelyse opens the cervic in a doe and expells the contents, no matter what the stage of pregnancy. Well not the first several days, because the fetus are not attached yet.

We have routinely used lute for years, when we where CAE positive back in the late 80's. All does where given lute, they kid approx. 36 hours after the shot. This way I was right there to catch and remove kids. If you do not have a good due date, you have kids in 36 hours, ready or not, I have seen kids born whose due dates where 3 weeks off, induced by lute, and unviable.

It is also used routinely used, in alot of show farms. Does are bred their first year, because of birth hormones the kids grow quicker, they are aborted about 80 days in, so there is no udder formation, they then can be shown in 12 to 24 months, as big dry yearlings. I breed my does to kid on their first birthday, so I have never followed this practice.

The only thing dex will do in a pregnancy in a goat is to mature the lungs of kids. This was part of the old, erronious information that used to be given about all metobolic disease in goats, always called ketosis. We now know few goats really get ketosis, so aborting them early, using dex to mature the lungs, isn't done very much anymore. (It is widespread information on the Boer lists, they use Lute and Dex together always, they also use penicillin after every kidding if they even touch the doe.) We now know about hypocalcemia, and treating for this, before they go down. Also with CAE prevention, most routinely do not use lute for kiddings (dairy goats). It's a nice tool to use when it is given correctly.

My vet, also a Merry, wasn't really thrilled with our use of it in the beginning either, she now has seen it's use over the last 18 years, and now knows how well this drug works for goats.

My advice is rarely about what someone else has said does or does not work. Other than my list, where I of course chat about everything, most questions I answer are things that directly have worked for me. Vicki

[Trisha-MN]

Sorry to jump on your thread but DH & I have been discussing Lutelyse and wondering if anyone has any info on any complications later from using
it to induce. Basically we're wondering if you use it a couple times, if the animals
will become dependent on it or if will alter their systems so they don't have regular heat cycles etc.

Thanks
Trisha-MN

[Vicki McGaugh TX Nubians]

I know when lutelyse is discussed on open forums, there is always someone who will come on with horror stories, mostly of what they have heard, that it causes cystic does, that does will not cycle naturally afterwards etc. I just haven't found this to be true, there is simply way to many herds using this drug for this to be true.

It would be different if this was a totaly synthetic drug, but lute works with the does own body, like using oxytocin. Vicki