Worried about Nomo.

[Pony]

Nomo looks like a big, black, furry beached whale.

She can't move her back end at all. We move her as much as we can, but we have to go to work, so she'll be spending her day moving her front end from side to side.

It seems to me that she is losing strength. She does still eat, but not as much. Her breathing seemed a little different; not exactly panting, but certainly more respirations per minute.

I gave her 70cc CMPK, 1cc Banamine, 500mg Thiamine, and 3cc multi B before I left for work this morning.

No ligaments to speak of. No goo. REALLY swollen vulva. I did put some A&D ointment on her vulva this morning, because she can't always get away from the urine and pellets.

I can't get home @ lunch because I'm working at a satellite clinic.

I know there's not a lot to do at this point anyway, but if any of you are inclined to pray or send good thoughts, I would really appreciate it.

[MDKatie]

Have you been treating her for ketosis?

[Pony]

Originally Posted by MDKatie

Have you been treating her for ketosis?

Yup. CMPK BID. Also hitting her with B and Thiamine. Feed her Greek yogurt when I'm at home.

She's eating hay and alfalfa pellets, along with some oats and BOSS. Plenty of water nearby.

[MDKatie]

What does BID mean? And CMPK may help, but for ketosis the treatment is extra calories/energy. Sounds like a classic case of ketosis where her energy inputs are not meeting her demands. Multiple fetuses make it hard for them to physically have enough room in their stomachs for enough hay/forage. I'd start treating her with propylene glycol, corn syrup, molasses, or some other high energy supplement. I'd also start her on grain ASAP. Alfalfa pellets and hay is not enough energy for her. Grain is much more concentrated energy, therefore she won't need to eat as much volume as she would to get the same amount of energy from fiber.

Healthy sheep and goats should easily be able to carry twins or triplets, unless they're having an issue like ketosis. I don't think it's normal for a goat to go down just because she is pregnant. There must be some sort of underlying issue.

[Pony]

BID means twice a day.

As I stated in my above post, she gets oats and BOSS along with her alfalfa pellets, and has free-choice access to quality alfalfa/clover hay. I also give her yogurt twice a day as well, so she's getting plenty of probiotics in addition to extra calories and calcium.

I do not use propylene glycol nor corn syrup. CMPK has plenty of glucose in it.

If there is an underlying issue, I'm danged if I know WTH it is. All my goats are healthy, shiny, in good weight. Their color is good, their parasite count is almost nil. Further, her mother has consistently thrown quads, so it is entirely possible that she has more than trips on board.

This isn't the first time I (or others on here) have had a heavy bred goat be so heavy she couldn't walk. This is, however, the first time I've had one so far out from her estimated due date.

The advice I've received from those who have experienced this is to keep her comfortable, fed, and hydrated.

That's what I've been doing.

[MDKatie]

Well, then, good luck to her.

[Pony]

She is not "down" because she's sick (ie ketosis). She is HEAVY bred. She was slipping around on ice for 3 weeks. She can't stand in the rear.

I am doing what I can to avoid ketosis related to her inability to move.

I posted this because I am concerned and worried.

[marusempai]

Poor girl, and poor you! Hopefully she has those babies soon and everything straightens right out. With all this trouble, I bet they're the best goat kids ever of all time!

[MDKatie]

In your other thread, you posted that any suggestions or tips would be appreciated. I'm sorry if you just wanted to vent and aren't interested in any more tips. If so, please disregard the rest of this post.

billinwv posted an article linking to ketosis info in the other thread. I'm not trying to say you don't care for your animals, or that they're not properly fed. You posted in this thread you think she's going downill and not eating as much. Wouldn't it be worth it to try something else, even if you don't think it'll work?

CMPK has some glucose in it, but it is not the primary treatment for ketosis. I've had experience with animals with ketosis, and usually it is just a few out of a flock/herd that have it, so it doesn't mean the whole group isn't being fed well or fed enough. It just means that particular animal isn't getting enough calories to support the fetuses.

I don't think there's anything to lose by offering molasses, corn syrup, or even propylene glycol, especially now that she's going downhill.

[Pony]

Thanks, Marusempi. That's just what I needed. The other thread is apart from my pity party here.

There are problems with having under-performing stock, and there are problems you run into only with healthy stock. Healthy stock will have multiple births, and mine have a tendency to be over-achievers. Trub has consistently thrown quads (a pain in its own right), and Nomo is mama's girl.

With the slipping on the ice, I'm sure she is sore in the back already.

We are treating prophylactically, to be on the safe side. Tonight when I get home, she will get an extra yogurt and a dose of corn syrup. Or molasses.

Or both.

It's hard when you've done everything you can do, and all that's left is to stand by and pray and wait.

I've never been a patient waiter. <sigh>

[PNP Katahdins]

Pony, when is Nomo due? Does her name mean No More by any chance? As in please not quints....

Hugs from Peg

[Woolieface]

Poor goat Praying it turn out well for you. I have a huge one that I'm afraid will end up in much the same condition. She's 3 weeks from due, mostly lays around and breathes hard.

[Frosted Mini's]

I've got one that's not due for over a month that's been sitting like a dog for a month already. She's the roundest one out there, and everyone else is due in the next 2 weeks. But she walks fine. I don't agree that it is normal for a goat with even higher multiples to not be able to stand up in her rear end. She may have injured herself in some way when she was slipping on the ice, and the heavy weight of pregnancy is making it worse. Or she's a little weak and an injury from slipping is making it harder for her to stand. Either way, she is probably not consuming enough calories (because it's harder to get to the food), and giving her extra will probably help. Still remember that dramatic diet changes are never good. When is she due? If you have an exact due date, I would induce her to kid around day 142-145.

[Jlynnp]

Wish I were closer I would goat sit for you. I hope things go ok for you and Nomo.

[marusempai]

I hear you. Sundae is still getting up and around ok, but is clearly starting to have a hard time of it - if she has quads again this year, next year I'm CUTTING her grain leading up to breeding, because quads are exciting but not usually in the good way! I bet Nomo hurt herself on the ice, poor baby. You're clearly doing all you can for her though, waiting is hard.

[Pony]

PNP, yes, Nomo stands for "No More" as in NoMo Troubles. Her mom's name is Many Troubles. Her sister's name is Neve Rany Troubles. (Her older sister's name is Erin My Troubles.)

I've been reassured by the most experienced breeders I know that I'm doing everything I can. She's really a trooper, and I know there's really nothing else I can do.

She got two yogurts this evening, along with the other stuff. We found out that she absolutely detests corn syrup, though. If a goat could make a skunk beer face, Nomo came really close tonight. Oh, how she hates it! Rubbed her face in the straw and on her feed bucket, then on my arm. Drank a lot of water, then rubbed her face some more. It was almost funny.

What is funny is the way her face actually lights up when she sees the yogurt container. She looks like a dog who sees its favorite treat. Her ears perk up and she tilts her head. Gave me a smile, and gave me some more hope.

Thanks for the "poor baby" responses. I needed them. {hugs}

[Pony]

Oh, forgot to say: She's due the 18th. If nothing by Friday, I'm dexing her.

[myheaven]

Im rooting for you girls pony and nomo.

[billinwv]

If she falters at all I would induce on Wed for Thur kidding. My does think I hate them prior to breeding. I feed nothing except hay(coarse grass) and minerals. IMO the flushing effect of a rich diet causes multiple ovulation. I absolutely hate pregnancy toxemia and "litters". Somewhere along the line folks started to keep breeding stock from those who had triplets or more. That, and access to ample feed has caused this problem. A friend just delivered 11 kids to three does!! Quints, Quads, and twins. The two with multiple births have been "down" for 3 weeks. Too much work and too much risk. Retain does from twins and feed less prior to breeding.

[Frosted Mini's]

I haven't had problems with my higher multiples. Triplets are my favorite. Twins a close second. I hate singles. Quads and more are fine, but it's overkill at that point. Lots of babies though, means lots of choices for breeding what you want and culling out what you don't.

Dexamethasone is an excellent idea for her. I bet you could give it now and even if she did end up kidding a lil early from it, the kids would probably be okay. I think if they are going to kid from that, it takes at least a couple days. It will also help develop the kids lungs (last thing to develop) and it helps the doe utilize her sugars more (or something like that), so can help if she is ketotic at all.