How to fatten up a goat..

[Ziptie]

So if you look at the shivering goat thread. I might have a goat that needs some more weight. Question is how to put on this weight without any corn/soy/premade pellets?

They have access 24/7 to as much of alfalfa hay/grass hay and strait grass hay as they can eat.

The milking doe has as much whole oats as she can eat with/minerals/hand full alfalfa pellets and two handfuls BOSS. Though she never finishes what we give her and tries to eat around the alfalfa pellets and BOSS.

I am wondering if I should leave out the oats 24/7, but I am worried that is too much grain. Been reading articles that goats really shouldn't be getting any grain.

Though with the wind chill today it is -30 out. Yes, they have straw bedding and pretty much hang out in the barn stall all day even though they could go outside.

[marusempai]

Can you get chaffhaye? It's fermented alfalfa, and in my (admittedly limited) experience there's nothing better for helping goats put on a little weight. Not only is it excellent nutrition, it's loaded with probiotics and actually seems to stimulate their appetites. You also might try free choice alfalfa pellets.

[GoatGirl123]

Oh yes, Chaffhaye is great for fattening goats!

[mygoat]

How far into lactation is she, and is she bred?

Grain in the diet is perfectly acceptable way to feed a goat. It is just PART of a diet that should be otherwise based on forage.

Optimize your hay quality if possible. It sounds good as it is. I'd try feeding the alfalfa pellets as a herd in pans. Sometimes the competition urges them to eat more, and pellets are great nutrition from a forage standpoint.

Consider deworming if Famancha indicates it is necessary - a fecal will likely come back with few worms this time of year as no self respecting momma worm is laying many eggs this time of year.

As for grain, increasing energy is important. If you want a goat to gain weight and to lactate at a reasonable level, energy must be provided. A safe and cost effective way of doing that is grain. The problem is, it is rapidly fermented carb and misfeeding can cause a sudden change in rumen environment and lead to acidosis or worse, overgrowth of opportunistic pathogens (C. perfringens for example). Most of these are due to decreased forage intake or rapid change in diet, which can be managed to prevent. You can also add in higher energy forages - increasing alfalfa in the hay is one, but you could also try shredded beet pulp. We have a doe that hits over 2gal/day and I changed the diet to include a bit of shredded beet pulp instead of increasing her grain input (we also mix a large amount of alfalfa pellets in) and I'm really liking the mix. Our grain mix is corn, oats, soybean dairy pellet, Se/VitE supplement, and a small amount of molasses to keep it from being dusty. We mix 12 parts of that with 6 parts alfalfa pellets, 3 part shredded beet pulp, and 1 part BOSS. BOSS is high in protein as well as fat, so you must be careful about overfeeding BOSS - high fat in the diet isn't great.

Most goats love BOSS like crack... Try feeding it separate and see if she scarfs it all down. How much and how often are you feeding her?

[Ziptie]

Been milked for almost a year. We were milking twice a day but she had decreased so much now we are going to once a day. We were getting one quart in morning and half a quart at night. Now we are getting half quart in morning and 1 cup at night.

Was probably bred second week dec.

No, no chaffhaye. Though I will try asking around. Only thing around here is corn,soy..some more corn and soy...plus a little bit more corn and soy. Of course were allergic to both items.

Just did a fecal a few months ago. Clear on the worms.

We do feed ground white sorghum to the cow for some extra energy during the winter.

Do you soak the shredded beat pulp?

I do still have some sugar beets that I have been feeding the cow. Guess I could try chopping them again for them.

[Clovers_Clan]

If you can determine WHY she is underweight, that will help. I would do a FAMACHA check, a lot can change in three months. Especially if the goats are foraging closer to the ground now. Even if her color looks good I would not rule out Brown Stomach worms. As mentioned, might not show up in fecals this time of year. Could she be mineral deficient? If she is, extra groceries are not going to help if she can't absorb the nutrients. You mentioned she is the only one underweight. Are others pushing her away at the feeder? You did mention she picks around her food. Have you checked her teeth? Avoiding the harder alfalfa pellets could be a sign. And finally, rule out the big three. What is her background? Has she been tested for Johnes?

Ruling out causes and fixing any ailments will help her get back in shape faster.

Sudden decrease in production can be attributable to heat cycles. But if it is gradual and long going she maybe showing signs of needing a rest or naturally at the end of her lactation. I know its a long time before she will kid but, personally, I would just go ahead and dry her off completely.

Beet pulp is excellent, its added energy plus high fiber, which is easy on her rumen and has the added benefit of bulk to burn for warmth, since she's shivering. BOSS in moderation is a good source of fat.

If she is pregnant, I would not use a lot of grain now to "fatten" her up. Certainly no more than is reasonable for a lactating/pregnant doe under ordinary circumstances. Doing so would likely put weight on babies early through midterm, producing large babies and possibly setting her up for ketosis, if she doesn't have enough reserves at the end of her gestation. As with all diet changes, slow is better, and natural is better. Keeping it balanced and increasing amount and quality of free choice hay will get her there over time. And deeper bedding will keep her warm in the meantime.

[Awnry Abe]

I had a shaker last year. She was in horrible condition. Aborted her kids. At the time, our dairy and beef herd was mixed, and she was low on the social order. Add in a tall order of parasite load. She was frail, skinny, and had a horrible coat. Was barely able to survive in the brutal winter months. Late last winter/early spring we were finally able to bring the dairy girls up to the new barn. It was much more weather friendly, close to the house, and the competition for food and snuggly warm places was much less. She eventually fattened back up and regrew a nice coat. We were able to get her pregnant. Crossing fingers. I should post before and after pics. You wouldn't know it was the same goat. De-wormer, good forage, Chaffhaye, and non-stop free-choice good minerals got her turned around.

[motdaugrnds]

You're getting good information from others. I would definately second the possibility of her having a load of worms that have not shown up in fecal samples. (She may have some anemia too.)

I can tell you what I did to fatten my herd after they were hit so hard with minengeal worms this past year. After giving those heavy doses of meds to get rid of the worms, I had to then increase their red blood cells and worked hard to get their rumens functioning well.

I used C.M.P.K. alternated with Probios Paste, altered with "Red Cell" alternateded with "Ruplamin Plus" (starting daily for a few days then continuing weekly). I added extra scoops of Shreded beet pulp (has molasses in it) and some steam-rolled barley. (I stopped using BOSS awhile back because I learned it caused a copper deficiency in my herd.) This mixture of grains (with alfalfa pellets) and good quality hay brought their weight up nicely. This worked! (My area is not deficient in copper but is deficient in selenium.)

[Ziptie]

[QUOTE=motdaugrnds;7336813]You're getting good information from others. I would definately second the possibility of her having a load of worms that have not shown up in fecal samples. (She may have some anemia too.)

So, if the fecal comes back clean (Vet used my scope at the barn and I also looked through the slides) and her color is fine how else would you check to see what kinds of worm problem she has?

She is the Queen of the herd. So she pushing everyone else out of the way. Her hair is nice and shiny and thick. This is our first winter with these guys. I know in the past they were feed regular goats pellets. Maybe because of that they are used to higher feed concentrates?

[motdaugrnds]

Ziptie, when my herd came down with minengeal worms, those did not show up in fecal samples. (I've actually been told this type of worm cannot be discovered without doing a necropsy, i.e. kill one of the suspected goats.) They did lose weight and I could not get weight on them no matter what I fed them. When they started turning their heads to the side and losing hair along the spine (also heard of this type of worm being prominent at the time in the eastern parts of USA), I decided to go ahead and treat for minengials. I lost 2 of my best does; however, this treatment saved the rest of my herd!

[mygoat]

Through the winter, fecals will often show decreased or few eggs. This is because the worms in the gut are dormant from reproduction - why produce eggs if they are going to die in the environment during the cold weather anyways? I'd evaluate fecal consistency, body condition, and FAMANCHA in deciding to deworm or not. The unfortunate thing about deworming in winter is that you'll kill off the susceptible worms and leave the more resistant ones to start reproducing in the spring (you never kill ALL the worms).

Are they UTD on Copper?

[Ziptie]

Good to know info on the worms.

Getting beet pulp today for them. I am giving it dry and starting out with a small handful each.

I did find some chaffhaye for $14.00 50lb bale. Do I give this free choice to the goats and not give any more alfalfa pellets? Though I think I will start with the beet pulp first and see how that goes.


As for the copper...I am giving them a compete loose goat mineral. Do I still need to worry about copper deficiency? Talking to the vet we do not have a selenium deficiency in our area.

[marusempai]

You can feed chaffhaye free choice, or you can try to ration it out. When I feed it, I usually give what they'll eat in about fifteen minutes, otherwise that's all they'll eat until it is gone (and it ain't cheap!). You can feed alfalfa pellets too, or not. I've done both ways, depending.

We have no copper deficiency here, I feed loose goat mineral, and I still copper bolus. It is hard to OD goats on copper, and the fact of having the rods in their stomachs makes it hard for worms to live in there (doesn't just increase the copper in the whole goat, but makes a HIGH concentration in the stomach, which is bad for worms). I figure it can't hurt, and might help. It is so humid here I figure they need all the help they can get...

[mygoat]

If you switch to free choice chaffhaye, which you CAN do, do so slowly. Though it is a roughage, it is still pretty rich.

[Ziptie]

Well last night milked..back up to a full quart??? This was before I gave her any one the new feed stuff..oy.

Last night during milking gave a hand full of beat pulp and a sprinkling of molasses. She ate the stuff off the top but that was about it.

This morning no shivering (though it has been off and on) and we are going to get to a balmy high of -9 today (that's without the windchill).

One thing I did do is not open the door to let them out of the barn. All they could do is lay around and eat all day...tough life.

I think I will go ahead with the copper ..if it can't hurt....now off to figure where to get some and how to do that.

Thanks everyone for the help and ideas.

[mygoat]

We bolus 2x per year. Pre-breeding and pre-kidding. It is a critical part of a worm management program. I hate the goat sizes, they're more expensive and the wrong size. Effectiveness for worm control is influenced by dose.

I buy the cattle copper boluses and open them all up into the container. It is pricy but it lasts a long time for your herd. http://www.jefferspet.com/products/copasure

I use size #13 gel caps from jeffers: http://www.jefferspet.com/products/gelcaps-empty

They fit perfectly in the calf balling gun if you shove a 6ml syringe in there and bend the bolus holder tabs a bit. :P http://www.jefferspet.com/products/p...f-balling-guns

The only other thing you'll need is a little gram scale. Here's a cheap little one. http://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh...rds=gram+scale

The dose is 1g per 22lb. Some people make treats out of the copper, I prefer just to bolus. Don't be shy about the balling gun... They don't like it, but shove it in, deposit the bolus far back, hold the head up until you watch them swallow and done. I give it 2 weeks pre-breeding and 4 weeks pre-kidding simply because that's when I do other stuff. 2 weeks pre-breeding I'm trimming hooves and usually doing estrus synch stuff (we synch heats here). 4 weeks pre-kidding I'm doing BoSe, hoof trims, and vaccinating anyways.