Goat Feed Recipes

[Meaghan]

After doing a bit of research online about the feeds I have available in my area, it seems like they aren't well recommended. We'd like to go with an organic feed but the only commercial organic feed sold at our local feed store is Countryside Organics, and it apparently isn't highly rated.

So, after finding a mill we can buy organic grain from, we decided it's probably best to mix our own feed.

I was just wondering if anyone knew of good recipes to use for both growing and lactating goats. We won't be using the latter for quite a while, but it's best to be prepared. Corn and soy in the recipes is okay as long as they aren't a majority of the feed, since they are just fillers.

[sammyd]

Corn and soy are hardly fillers. Soy is a very good source of protein and corn is a very good source of energy, each has its place in feeds and feeding calling them filler flies in the face of reality.

215 pounds of corn
110 pounds of whole oats
125 38% pellet
40 molasses
1 vitADE
12 2-1 mineral
40 BOSS
Is the recipe I picked up from a local dairy goat place. Our goats liked it and did well on it.
I do not know if you can get an organic 38% pellet, if not, you'll have to go with soy as a replacement.

[SJSFarm]

2/3 oats
1/4 BOSS

Several people here have suggested this.

I'd like to hear from them on milk production rates though; this vs a standard dairy pellet. I've only used it for a few months.

[billinwv]

We went non gmo instead of organic. Our mix is 1000lbs crimped oats, 900lbs crimped barley and 100lbs molasses. We supplement with kelp and loose dairy minerals. Costs 13.00 per 50lb. Check out the goats at www.munchinhillfarm.com. She is the original one to use this and sort of co-ops with a few of us others who pick up at her farm. She shows and wins at the national level and has very high producers. I just have mine for home use and don't show anymore. I feed according to condition and whether lactating or not.

[billinwv]

What is BOSS? Not familiar with that term.

[solsikkefarms]

Black Oil Sunflower Seed

[Meaghan]

Sammyd: Well, to be honest, they are. They have very few essential vitamins and minerals, which categorizes a filler. All they are is empty calories, they aren't particularly nutritious. After many college animal nutrition classes, all echoed the same thing. Thank you for your input, but there is a reason why I specifically asked for minimal corn/soy use. I'm glad that it works well for you, though.

SJSFarm: I have seen this as well, but didn't know if it would be balanced enough. I know BOSS really help with most feeds, though. I'll see if I can dig up any research on it.

billinwv: Thank you for the info! We probably won't show our goats initially, but that's a longer term goal. We went organic for the lack of medicated feeds as well as non-GMO, but it's easier to find organic grains than it is to find honest non-GMOs, and organics are tested more frequently as there are standards for it. Unfortunately, non-GMO doesn't mean they didn't use heavy pesticides either, which is my main concern. Splicing genes won't make a plant toxic, we just want to avoid the heavy pesticides in the crops that can accumulate.

I tried to click the link, but it led no where. After a google search, I think you meant munchinhill.com? If so, those goats look wonderfully conditioned and that recipe will be in the running!

[sammyd]

I gave you a ration designed by a trained nutritionist, the corn was not referred to as filler or empty calories but rather as a source of energy.
If you indeed have so much knowledge why are you here asking questions? You should have the tools to figure it out and share your findings.

[mygoat]

Empty calories means nothing but energy with little other nutrition. Corn kinda qualifies I guess, but soy does not - it is high protein, not 'empty calories'. (if fed in excess, It is processed as energy, but I haven't ever heard it called empty calories before) They can be excellent as parts of a diet though, and I use both personally.

That 1/4th boss is a LOT of BOSS. That would be a diet pretty high in fat and pretty pricy as BOSS is expensive. My commercial mix is corn, oats, a dairy pellet at 16%. It is mixed with a bit of wet molasses and a vitamin E/Selenium mix. I then take this base mix and mix it 12 parts grain mix, 6 parts alfalfa pellet, 3 parts shredded beet pulp, and 1 part BOSS. That's 1/22 BOSS. Works great for me.

Personally for growing kids, I used a prebagged feed. I use a coccidistat medicated sheep grower pellet. I believe it's 18% protein, but importantly it's also balanced 2:1 calcium: phosphorus for feeding young males. It also contains ammonium chloride to reduce stones in males. I also use it to feed to my bucks in the breeding season when they decrease eating as they go into rut. The coccidistat is helpful in controlling the #1 stunter of goat kids - coccidia. I still practice prevention with other products earlier on.

[Meaghan]

Sammyd: That would be because my classes tools balanced for cattle, not goats. Since goats are not a large part of any industry, most software does not balance for them correctly. In addition, once I graduated, I lost access to the software necessary to create diets similar to the way graduates lose access to library scientific articles. So, the reason why I cannot simply come on here and propose a diet for my new doelings is because I have no software, and the software that I did have access to previously did not balance for goats.

A source of energy (calories) does not mean it isn't a filler. As I said, it's empty calories because neither corn nor soy are nutritionally dense, as some other foods are. Other grains, like barley, wheat, etc. have more balanced nutrient profiles (more essential amino acids, vitamins, and minerals). No grain will ever be 100% balanced, which is why a feed that is 70-90% corn or soy will not be balanced. However, when other grains are used in combination with corn or soy, it can balance out quite nicely and give a good, mixed feed.

We see a reflection of this in human food, by comparing a soft drink (mostly high fructose corn syrup and carbonated water) to something like fruit juice from real fruit. The former will be mostly empty calories with no nutritional value, and the latter will contain adequate (for the calorie amounts) vitamins and minerals. Again, not that the occasional soda will hurt you, but drinking more than half of your daily caloric intake in soda probably will eventually.

In addition, high fructose corn syrup, a corn derivative because corn contains large amounts of fructose (a simple sugar) has biological issues of it's own. Fructose is one of the few simple sugars that we know of that causes metabolic syndrome because it, in the process of glycolysis and gluconogensis skips the fat limiting factor Acetyl CoA. The reason this is an issue in any animal is because it leads to fat deposits when large amounts of fructose is consumed, regardless of blood glucose levels. In a dairy animal, it is important to keep fat deposits out of the animal in general, especially the udder.

As far as soy goes, it's common knowledge that they contain phytoestrogens which mimic estradiol (one of the three estrogen hormones commonly talked about). In small amounts, that's not an issue, but in large amounts it can lead to early puberty in all animals, and in males it can cause spermiogenesis issues.

Again, I appreciate your suggestion, but I do have my reasons for limiting corn and soy. In small amounts (less than 30% of the diet) it does not cause any issues. But I do not want to feed large amounts to my animals. They may be livestock, but I still want what is best for them.

[Meaghan]

mygoat: Thank you for the feed suggestion. Do you know the percentage your feed mix is? I'm not opposed to using some corn, as I mentioned before I saw your post. I just don't want it to be the majority of the feed. We aren't concerned about bucks, we are just getting doelings for now. We will get a buck later, but he will be older (likely around 4-5 months).

[cfuhrer]

SUMMER:
Bermuda grass
Russian Olive Browse
COB with Calf Manna and Corn Oil

WINTER:
Alfalfa hay
COB with Calf Manna and Corn Oil

[sammyd]

LOL
I can't believe a thing you say.
But go on with your bad self.

[billinwv]

It's not the gmo that bothers me. It's the fact that 85% of gmo's are created to be resistant to glyphosphates(roundup). Glyphosphates make minerals unavailable to insects and animals that eat these grains. Have you seen bees "spinning out"? this is due in large part to a deficiency caused by consuming roundup treated crops. Many disorders in goats are mineral deficiency related. I myself was diagnosed as magnesium deficient??? Causes anxiety. If I am wrong someone correct me. Isn't roundup now approved in organic farming? Crops that are not modified to withstand roundup cannot be sprayed with it for weed control.

[billinwv]

Thanks for the clarification SLSI Feel kinda dumb as I have fed sunflower seeds for years. BTY I also give my goats brewers yeast tablets. Very high in B vitamins and they love them.

[Meaghan]

cfuhrer: Thank you for the recipe, but I want to use just grains, not a pre-bagged mix like Calf Manna.

sammyd: I never asked you to believe anything I said. You asked why I called corn and soy empty calories, I answered with the best scientific answer available. If you choose to ignore science, that's okay. But please don't comment on posts you inherently disagree with from the start just to be rude. It's fairly simple to click back to the main forum when you don't have anything constructive to say.

billinwv: Roundup is not approved for organic farming, neither are GMOs. That's why I'm buying organic seed, to avoid the seeds that are grown using pesticides. I'm in the same boat, I think I misstated myself in the previous post. I have no issues with splicing genes myself, it's the pesticides used on them that bother me. Certified organics cannot contain any GMOs, and cannot use synthetic pesticides like roundup. That's why I mentioned that certified organic is more reliable than just GMO free, since the GMO free label is a voluntary one not monitored or tested regularly like certified organics are to maintain no GMO or non-synthetic pesticide contamination.

[Pony]

Originally Posted by sammyd

LOL
I can't believe a thing you say.
But go on with your bad self.

Really, SammyD? Come on, that's out of line.

[Frosted Mini's]

This is what I feed to milkers:
Summer:
Pasture
Alfalfa pellets, free choice in a bin to the group while I'm milking. These are excellent, 18-20% that I get from a local mill for hardly more than hay w/no waste.
For Nigerians, a sprinkle of grain-less than handful
For alpines, 1-2 lbs per milking of grain, mix (the amounts are a little odd due to adjustments I've made):
6.2 lb whole oats
6.2 lb whole barley
2 lb rolled corn or C.O.B., whatever is cheaper at the time lol
3.5 lb beet pulp shreds (mine won't eat the pellets)
1.8 lb ground flax
Winter
Same, except no pasture and feed okay to great alfalfa hay (whatever I was able to locate that year) and pellets and leaves that I collect in the fall.

Kids get fed like this:
Milk, milk, milk...free choice milk as much as they want
Daily deccox-M in the milk until they are weaned (or either other coccidia prevention if dam-raised)
Free choice good quality alfalfa hay and pellets
Small amount of grain with deccox pellets (my local feed mill has a concentrated deccox pellet designed to mix to grain). I usually just use a mollassified COB for kids as they are more attracted to it, at least at first. I have mixed in calf manna in the past too...haven't really seen much difference calf manna or not.

Everyone gets free choice loose mineral, which I use Right Now Onyx 4 parts to 1 part kelp to one part diamond V yeast. Copper bolus every 5 months. Bo-Se twice a year, prebreeding and prekidding. Always free choice clean water.

[Meaghan]

Frosted Mini: Do you know of any good substitutes on beet pulp? There are realistically no sources of beet pulp that are organic in the US. Thank you for your help!

[Frosted Mini's]

Beet pulp is kind of its own oddball creature. I believe in some areas of the country there is a such thing as citrus pulp for animal feed..not sure if they are at all alike though. Maybe you could find somewhere that had the leftovers from cane sugar processing? I bet you could leave it out completely and do just fine. High quality forage products are far more important than the concentrate feed.