Heartbreak

[farfel]

My four year old whether pygmy goat who I dearly loved died from a ruptured bladder, either from sludge or stones in urethra. He only ate Timothy hay, minerals, had a salt block and browsed the field.

I learned from the surgeon that goats should not be neutered before 1too young as testosterone enables their urethras to grow larger in diameter, but the 4H kids I got him and his three brothers neuter them as babies.

Now I am worried as to what I can do to prevent this happening to him. Please can someone tell me what other preventative actions I can take, such as combination of minerals etc.

I am heartsick,
farfel

[GoatGirl123]

I don't think neutering before 1 hurts anything; as far as I know it's what most people do. So sorry for your loss.

[CraterCove]

I'm sorry for your loss.

I doubt banding age would have changed all that much. Although that is the argument many make for not neutering or spaying dogs before a year to 18 months. A good preventative is to make sure they have ammonium chloride.

It's always hard to lose a pet.

[dozedotz]

What a sad thing. So sorry you lost the little guy. I, too, have read and been told to hold off on banding. Here's the problem IMO: 1) if you wait a year, the personality of your pet will not be the same...bucks are just more aggressive and late neutering would not correct that personality (I believe...although never tried it) 2) bucks do not make great pets...even the mildest of them that are easy to work with are just "bucky" 3) he might get all the girls he is around (assuming he is with a herd) including his mom and sisters pregnant. Most folks band and butcher and therefore don't worry too much about "down the road" problems with wethers. Obviously, many people own wethers that are several years if not a decade old and they were banded at a young age and never had a problem. The ammonium chloride is commonly used to keep problems away. Your feeding program looked fine to me...although I never use salt blocks due to my belief that the goats will ignore the minerals and eat all the salt because that is the taste that they desire.
I honestly don't think you should beat up on yourself in your grief over the loss. If you made a mistake, you are not alone!! but I cannot see anything that you did that was glaringly wrong.

[vinehill]

I'm sorry for your loss This is not an uncommon malady for wethers. From what I've been told over the years, a neutered buck is more likely to get stones. A preventative measure is IF feeding grain (which you were not) to only feed them 10-12% as opposed to 16% for does. Another preventative is to add Apple Cider vinegar to their water. You can make sure that the wether's water has this in it but I just pour it into everyone's water bucket. Watch for 'water belly' on your wethers too. I've never had this happen here but will add that I know of other goat breeders who have. There is a procedure that some do to save their life and that is to cut the 'tip' off in order to permit urine to flow. Vets can do this. Some experienced owners have done the procedure their self in order to save the life.

[farfel]

Thank you all for your condolences and advice

Vinehill would you tell me what WATER BELLY IS and are you talking about "cutting off the tip" of penis for urine flow?

I think my salt block has other minerals in it but will check.

Farfel

[vixcottage]

I also lost my intact buck last week due to urinary calculi. I was giving him ammonium chloride and also cider vinegar in his water. He seemed to be better and then went out in AM and he was dead. He was young not quite 1 year old. I have read some lines have a higher risk for this and some articles state it is a management problem. I have raised dairy goats for more than 20 years and have never had this problem before. I understand how devastated you are. I am so sorry.

[Clovers_Clan]

Originally Posted by vixcottage

I have read some lines have a higher risk for this and some articles state it is a management problem.

I do believe there are lines that are more prone. Just a personal observation: very, very few dairy breeders I talk to have ever had problems(usually castrated very young), but in 4H/FFA market goat circles(usually castrated very late) I hear of so many tragedies. I know there is a big difference in grain fed management practices. But I also hear a lot of instances from those who keep thrifty pygmies and don't feed grain at all. So makes me wonder if there's not also a genetic disposition for meatier goats.

MyGoat, you have extensive experience with both meat and milk goats, as well vet schooling. Do you think there is a difference in calcium needs and how efficiently the two classes of goats process excess calcium?

[farmmaid]

Put apple cider vinegar in his water...............

[wintrrwolf]

Am so sorry for your loss.
I am a strong advocate of clean fresh water and apple cider vinegar, the more concentrated the urine becomes from not drinking water the better chance you have of one becoming stopped up, the addition of apple cider vinegar to the water helps to clear potential blockages plus goats love the taste so they drink more. All my critters get ACV water here.

[farfel]

Thank you all again. What percentage or proportion of apple cider vinegar would you use for 2-3 gallon water bucket. Does anyone know what the referral to "water belly" was?
Farfel

[vinehill]

For some reason, I keep losing my posts (replies) and it's aggravating! I think my pc is being overly sensitive or something today...sigh....So, sorry for my delayed reply about "Water Belly". It is what some goatie ppl use when referring to Urinary Calculi. But, not all bucks will have a noticeably water belly with UC. The water belly is referring to a back up of urine and yes, the vet can (and some experienced goat owners) snip the tip in order to save the buck's life.
I've been told to not feed a high protein grain to my bucks. I've never had a UC problem here and have owned both dairy and meat goats. I try to add ACV to their water and you should make sure that they have access to plenty of fresh water daily and that they are in fact drinking it. Should also check to be sure they are also urinating fine. Here is a link for some more info: http://www.tennesseemeatgoats.com/ar...calculi06.html
I don't know whether or not the tendency to develop this problem is more prevalent in meat goats vs dairy goats. But, I would agree that there is a possibility that it could be genetic. If this is happening and it is doing so concerning one of the bloodlines you are getting, there could be a defect in this line such as a more narrow urethra or less ability to process and eliminate, hence the calculi happen. Not sure. Cat

[Frosted Mini's]

It is not the tip of the penis really, but male goats have a little string looking thing called the pizzle that intact males use as like a sprinkler to inseminate the does or something. LOL. But it is a narrow spot in the urethra, and one place where stones can get hung up.