when to freshen Nigerian dwarf?

BelleWithBoots · #1 11/18/14, 10:47 AM

Hey guys, my nigi had a singleton in july (before i got her) she was owned buy a hobbiest and when i got her i only got a bout a quarter cup of milk at most even after separating doeling at night. She is my only doe right now and would really love some milk! Especially sense my little ones have food intolerance, i think it would do them a lot of good. I am also on the goatspot but i thought i would ask here cause i was wondering from a homesteading perspective, when can i freshen her? I have not had goats sense i was a kid, but from what i understand Nigerian dwarves are different from full size and come into heat year round? if that is true, when is it okay from a health perspective. I dont want to ask to much of her but would like to as soon as it is safe :-) thanks for your thoughts and patience with my newbie questions!

Christie

**mygoat** · #2 11/18/14, 11:23 AM

Is your question about the doeling or about the adult doe?

Generally, does will not go into heat for a few months after kidding. After that they will return to estrus. So long as management is good, you could breed them then. The MAIN priority is that they are dry (not lactating) for 2 months before they begin a new lactation. This allows for appropriate mammary tissue breakdown, remodeling, and lactogenesis. Shorter periods will not allow for all the stages to occur appropriately and is strongly linked to poorer lactations as well as poorer colostrum quality. In other words, the breed back timing and lactation is less important than they DRY PERIOD when breeding/kidding out goats.

As for what is healthy as far as breeding goes, that largely depends on her body condition and herd management. If she is a decent weight, free of disease, and cycling, it should be healthy to breed her.

If your question is about the doeling I'm of less help - I don't raise Nigies. Someone may be able to give you a 'breeding weight' for nigies - I thought it was right around 40-50lbs, but someone with more experience will hopefully chime in. Some people wait till 2 years to breed nigies the first time. Heck, some people wait to 2 years to breed FULL size goats. Me personally, I *hate* dry yearlings and don't want that kind of waste of space hanging around, so as long as my kids are managed well and are good size (for full size kids it's around 80bs, which is easily doable by 8months) I'll breed them their first fall to kid around 12-14 months of age for the first time. IMO there's not a lot of animals that you should cater to in when YOU want to breed them - I'd rather cull the 'slow growers' than have them freeload a year because they couldn't perform.

As for nigerian lactations, buying from a 'hobbiest' (I assume you mean 'pet breeder') may not be a good way to get a dairy animal. Not only can they be hard to milk (tiny teats and poor udder conformation), but they are not selected to be high milk producers. You may have better luck with a subsequent lactation, though. Moving animals is a good way to cause them to reduce production. Also, if it was her first set of kids, a first lactation is generally lower volume than any other lactation. Also, if you waited to start separating until the kid was fairly old then that could also cause her to decrease.

BelleWithBoots · #3 11/18/14, 12:34 PM

thank you that is all very helpful. I was talking about the doe, I assumed the doeling was not nearly ready yet as she still looks small, but is actually around 30 lbs. so maybe spring. As for my 2 year old, will she wean her kid herself when the time comes if i did breed her or would i have to facilitate the process? I appreciate that perspective, as while i do love having my goats around, their goal is to contribute to our family and I would like to get there as soon as possible. I realize she may not ever be the highest producer, I got her really cheap for just $50 and was thinking if nothing else she would be a inexpensive companion to feed when I can pinch enough pennies to get a great milking full size, and also great for me to learn on, lol. I also love their size with the kids around.. but i think i may just need to spring for a nubian or something and breed my nigis to supplement or get what cheese and such out of them as i hear they are great for that.

I do feed them really well (which is easy with minis!) and she seems to be in good health so I guess i just have to decide if I should try soon or wait. also any tips on how to detect correct heat timing and how long she needs to be with the buck? thanks!

Frosted Mini's · #4 11/18/14, 08:03 PM

For a live breeding, timing doesn't much matter, as long as the buck breeds her once or twice any time during her standing heat, she should take. Goats are in heat every 18-21 days, with a few a hair outside that timeframe cuz they don't read the books.

I breed my Nigerian doelings same time as alpines, 7-9 months to kid at 12-14. I also hate dry yearlings and Nigerians mature quickly, generally speaking, so no reason to hold them over really, if your management is good.

BelleWithBoots · #5 11/19/14, 09:46 PM

thanks, i am worming and feeding them 2 cups alfalfa pellets and 2 cups grain a day ( which they share) and free choice mix of hay (alfalfa, timothy and oat i believe & i think it may have some molasses..) free choice minerals 7 baking soda. i tried a regular horse hay first but they wont touch it... :-/ I also do veggie scraps and they sometimes steal bread crusts etc. from the chickens. have been trying to introduce some fodder as well. I heard that ruminants actually arent designed to digest grain and that fodder would be better for them along with hay. which i love the idea of for economical reasons but I want to make sure they are getting what they need.

also, they were run with the buck until 6 weeks ago so in truth im not actually 100% sure that my doe is not bred. She had a VERY large amount of discharge shortly after I got her and when I posted some pics ppl were wondering, however I sense have come to wonder if it was just heat as I saw a drop on her and my 4 month old doeling at the same time, again, week or so ago and possibly some extra noisy days and some mounting from my doeling. sounds like heat, right?

Frosted Mini's · #6 11/19/14, 09:52 PM

She very well could be. I hope the doeling didn't get pregnant at that time, too, but she could have, which would not be good for one so young.

BelleWithBoots · #7 11/20/14, 10:02 AM

wait very well could be pregnant or in heat? is it really possible for a 2 month old doeling to get pregnant?

**mygoat** · #8 11/20/14, 10:26 AM

Unfortunately, yes. That is why it is very important to wean or band bucklings as soon as they can extend fully, and why you should not run your buck with your doe herd especially if your herd is small (buck attention not distracted as much as it is with a large herd).

I have heard quite a few stories of does kidding out when they are 7 months old. USUALLY it is because there is a slightly older buckling left in with the herd. For does, this means they were bred as 8 week old babies, as they have a 5 month gestation.

BelleWithBoots · #9 11/20/14, 11:43 AM

wow crazy. yeah i am aware of the negatives of running a buck with the heard but evidently the pet breeder that i got them from was not. she had just heard about the smell and he did not really smell at all. does that mean that he was not in rut? there were three full grown does in the pen with him and no bucklings so hopefully they were the ones to receive his attention. Is there any specific signs i should look for on a doeling as young as her to see if shes bred? she does not seem to be getting an udder yet. I have tried to to handle her teats daily while she eats in order to hopefully introduce her to the idea well before she takes the stand. esp. sense she is kind of timid and only approaches me when i have treats. If she were bred i guess that would put her due in February then? possibly january for her mama?
so these cyclical type discharges could be just preggo signs?

Also, does how im feeding them seem okay if they are bred?

Frosted Mini's · #10 11/20/14, 01:38 PM

I would draw blood on both of them and send to Biotracking for pregnancy and CAE testing. It is not too likely that your doeling is bred, but it is possible, and if she is, you would want to evacuate that pregnancy. The pregnancy test $6.50 each and CAE test is $4.

BelleWithBoots · #11 11/20/14, 08:24 PM

i am nervous about trying to draw blood. from the instructions i was trying to read a bit ago it seemed difficult.

**mygoat** · #12 11/20/14, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BelleWithBoots

i am nervous about trying to draw blood. from the instructions i was trying to read a bit ago it seemed difficult.

One of the easiest things about goat keeping, actually. I just taught some kids yesterday, the youngest was around 10 years old if I had to guess (I'm far better at guesstimating goat age than human kid ages, haha).

For real, it is super easy though. I use a 3ml syringe, 20ga x 1" needle, and 3ml blood tubes. Watch a video of someone drawing blood to get you oriented and see how they insert the needle into the vein, and how to hold it off while drawing.

Clovers_Clan · #13 11/21/14, 06:46 AM

Foraging or hand feeding forage is a great way to economize resources and goats excel at it. Be sure to read up a little on what is toxic to goats. Generally speaking Asian ornamental shrubs are so be careful what you give them from your garden or yard. Fortunately very few North American native plants are toxic, so "weeds" are usually safe.

Frosted Mini's · #14 11/21/14, 11:25 PM

Uh...Clovers_Clan? Did you mean to post that here?

BelleWithBoots · #15 11/22/14, 09:59 PM

lol yeah i was a little confused, but thanks.
thanks mygoat, i picked up some syringes and needles from the tractor supply when i got them a cpl months ago when i got them planning to do it but then got nervous. lol. they also dont sell vials i guess so do you order your supplies online?

Frosted Mini's · #16 11/22/14, 10:38 PM

You can get the blood tubes from a vets office, just ask for "red top tubes", they'll know what you need, and they should be really cheap. Get as many as you need and a few extra, just in case.

BelleWithBoots · #17 11/26/14, 07:32 PM

thanks ill check there

**mygoat** · #18 11/29/14, 03:58 PM

I generally buy 100 of the 3ml tubes from Jeffers, it's cheap and they don't go bad so you can use them up through the years - I make a few big orders through Jeffers per year as they're the best prices for livestock equipment around, rarely do I buy elsewhere because of convenience and price. I've had upwards of 20 goats at times so it's worked out. Now I just have 6 goats to test or so per year as I make my way through vet school, and 1 full and 1 partial package of blood tubes. :P At least I won't have to order those anytime soon.