Problem - bloody liquid coming from doe - what to do?

[littlemother]

Hello. I don't post on here often so I feel like I'm intruding, but we need some advice. We have a doe that we believe to be pregnant. We guessed she might kid early to mid December based on when we first noticed the billy mount her, not on any conclusive evidence. Today we noticed she is dripping bloody liquid kind of creamyish out her vulva. At first I thought we must've guessed wrong and that she might kid soon then but on reading about it I went out to examine her closer and her ligaments still feel like firm pencils and she is not bagged up at all, much less tight and shiny. She has two itty bitty teats and no bag to speak of. Now we are worried she might be aborting. She is pooping more often than usual, though it is normal in appearance. Help please? What could this be?

[mygoat]

Without knowing if she is pregnant or not, it's hard to say. If she's only a month out from kidding, the fetus would be small but easily determined to be a fetus if you found it. I had a doe abort at 3 months bred and the fetus was a little longer than my hand in length when stretched out. 4-6 weeks pre-kidding I'd expect them to have some sort of noticeable udder development - sometimes it's only a little tiny palmful of udder tissue especially on FF (compare to a ff that's not bred for example), but there is something there generally. If she is MORE than about 4-6 weeks away then the udder may not be very present and the fetus is likely to be smaller.

Does do occasionally get dark looking vulvar discharge, but it's always been a very small amount of brownish opaque that is mostly just a tiny amount of crusty back there. (most vaginal discharge should be clear/opaque white.) How much and wether or not it is blood is the question. Dripping makes me think there is quite a bit of it? Are you sure it's not dark urine? Is it bright red or is it old blood/brown? Cloudy makes me worried, too. If it were me (and I'm a bit gross, I agree. :P ) I would dab a little on my hand and give it a good whiff. It should never smell rotten or offensive. I would also take a temperature and note any other behavior things.

[littlemother]

We've never had goats before so aren't even sure she is pregnant or not. It is definitely bloody watery liquid. Nothing smells off. I'll try to post pics.

[littlemother]

Also, she is only about 10 months. We got her at 4 months and didn't know they could get bred so they've been with a billy the same age all the time. Maybe she is too young and aborting due to things not going well due to it not being ideal for a good outcome? If so, do abortions usually go smoothly or is this an emergency?

[mygoat]

She would not abort just because she was bred younger than ideal.

That does appear to be blood. I would not assume it's an emergency, most abortions are fairly safe for the doe. If it starts to smell or she begins to behave oddly, then I'd worry. . I would take temperature to see if she has a fever, however, as the urethral opening is also right there and I suppose a UTI could also cause something similar, though less likely. Wear gloves - some of the goat abortive diseases are zoonotic.

[Frosted Mini's]

Looks like she is probably aborting to me too. They just happen sometimes. She may come into heat in a few weeks, and if that is the case, you can breed her back at that point.

[littlemother]

How long should that take? She is the same today. Does she require special care afterwards or just observe for signs of infection or anything amiss? What a sad start to goat keeping.

[mygoat]

Sorry you seem to have lost kids.

Nothing needed on her end at this point, but yes, observe for any changes in her behavior.

[littlemother]

We've been keeping an eye on her. I was reading around a bit online trying to find how to better tell what might be going on. While we were out with her trying to feel her belly better and look at the inner eyelids we noticed she pooped but it wasn't the pellets it was a soft log. Then later she pooped runny poop and the later watery. All of them were greenish. The inner eyelids were pale. Her temp was 103.2. I couldn't palpate any discernible uterus, it was all round and very full. I fear she is full of worms. We gave her some more of the cayenne crackers in an attempt to help her until we can get a wormer for her. What should I get?

Is it possible she has worms and that is what is causing her to threaten to abort? Is aborting usually because the kid has a problem or is there a possibility that if we worm her she could still carry the kid to term?

[mygoat]

103* is on the high side but still normal... Makes me wonder if she is coming off of a fever though. Oftentimes abortive diseases only flare up during certain points of pregnancy and largely do not affect the dams very much. We cannot know for sure.

Her body condition doesn't seem to scream heavy worm load, but that can be hard to determine through a picture. Personally, I suggest taking in a fecal to have it checked for worms and figure out what (or if) that is your problem. As for an egg count and ask if the levels are high and require worming. There will always be SOME eggs, but there is a range of acceptable/do not worm levels that should not be causing clinical illness, and superfluous deworming only exacerbates worm problems in the long run. I find that most of the time, most vets will always tell you to deworm if they find any eggs, and/or just not tell you an egg count... which is silly IMO.

Personally I like using this place, which does 5.00 fecals (my vet charges 20.00). I ship priority in USPS small flat rate box which is like 5.60. I can send 3 fecals plus pay for shipping for the same as my vet charges. http://midamericaagresearch.net/

A 'hard' stomach is normal - Not only is their rumen full of fiber being digested, stomach palpation is difficult in goats because they tend to tense up their bellies especially if palpating from the ventral side. If she was pregnant, her uterus would be more on her right side.

It's also unlikely that a worm load is making her abort unless she was severely debilitated by it. If she is still carrying a kid, deworming late in pregnancy should not hurt her and if she NEEDS to be dewormed, she should be. Certain wormers like Levamisole should NOT be used. Ivermectin and Cydectin are both pretty safe.

If you're deworming her, I would personally purchase Quest horse dewormer (which is moxidectin, same drug as Cydectin), and dose at 1cc per 100lbs. That's also a drug you should be able to readily find at a local 'farm' store.

[littlemother]

I decided to just call the vet. I'm always fearful of making a pest of myself. But he was very nice and talked quite some time about it. He is not concerned. He says the bleeding is a reproductive issue and could be preparing to kid or just her menstrual cycle. He said about the runny poop that it could be digestive upset, preparing to kid or something she ate. He said about the pale inner eyelid to wait until the conjunctiva is paper white before doing anything. He doesn't like to deworm unless the animal will die if not wormed. Otherwise the worms get more resistant. Basically, just keep an eye on her and if we want her looked at bring her in tomorrow. he also said to clean off her vulva and insert a finger to see if a kid was in a mal-presentation as that might cause the bleeding with tissue irritation. She seems happy enough. She has had a change in diet recently, putting her out in the hayfield after it was cut to eat along the edges. I so hope she is okay and that if she is pregnant she will kid well, with a safe birth and healthy kid. My two boys are coming home this weekend for Thanksgiving early since it's the only weekend they can come home from college but I might take her in just the same to see if she is okay and if she is pregnant or not. Thank you for your help! I'll update if anything exciting good or bad.

[mygoat]

Goats don't have a menstrual cycle, and I find it very disconcerting that a VET would tell you that...

Follow the FAMANCHA rules for deworming... paper white is horrifyingly anemic. ALWAYS do fecals, as the FAMANCHA is imperfect.

[GoatGirl123]

O . M . G . Yes, paper white is BAD. Goats do not have a menstrual cycle. Don't deworm until they're about to die and they very well might die. This vet is just wrong.

[littlemother]

Wow. That's really bad if a vet doesn't know that goats don't cycle. .

[littlemother]

[farmmaid]

Worm her NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[littlemother]

Here is a pic of her eye, sorry it took so long. How does it look to you?

[littlemother]

I had no idea what you were talking about with FEMANCHA but I found a chart and she looks to be either a 4 or a 5. Scary. It is going into the weekend, should I still send of a fecal sample or should I find another vet and take her in tomorrow? Should we pick up a wormer after work and give it to her tonight?

[Waiting Falcon]

Selenium deficiency can also cause white inner eyelid.

I am sorry the DVM was not knowledgeable about goats...

[mygoat]

If her body condition is good, and her fecal consistency is good, I'd probably just send off a fecal sample. If her body condition isn't the best and she's having poor fecal consistency, I'd deworm. The way to get the best evaluation is seen here, while pressing down gently on the eyeball and pulling down on the lower eyelid. Hers does look a little pale to me.