Tell me about breeding options

[mzgarden]

So, we are new to goats - <1 year. We have two registered Nubian does that will be of age right around January, so I'm gathering my information now. We are not 'connected' into the local goat community here, meaning we don't 'know' someone with an appropriate buck, etc.

What I want to do is breed them to either a pygmy or a nigerian dwarf. We may or may not decide to keep some/all of the kids.

So, our options are:

AI - our Vet is interested in learning to do this for goats; is experienced with cattle and horse. Has offered his office freezer to store straws and possibly any additional AI equipment that would work with goats. He indicated a few months ago, he would go to AI class with me, if I found one for goats in the area and his schedule permitted. He has some experience treating goats and is interested to expand his knowledge.

Rent a buck - bring someone else's clean/tested buck to our property and expose our girls when they are in heat. We would have to create a space for him, but he would be alone as we have only the two does. The requirement would be vet certificate proving testing has been done and they are negative for CL, CAE, Johnes

Rent a buck - take our does to the buck. Some folks around here will keep your does for a fee, others expect you to bring them, expose them, take them home same day. Same testing proof requirement as above.

Buy a buck - not really our intent at this point. With only two does, we're not really intending to have a buck at this time. Maybe down the line, as we gain experience, and we would add at least one wether with a buck, but at this point, not really what we want to do.

This will be our first time around breeding and we've got a couple months to learn.

We are open to input, perspective and suggestions.

Thank you.

[marusempai]

Another option - if you rent a buck, and he comes to your place, you could put a marking harness on him and let him live with the girls. He'll do his job and you'll know they're bred when their butts change color. That's what we're doing this year.

[Clovers_Clan]

A vet interested in learning more about goats, willing to donate space in a freezer, go to an AI class WITH you? Oh, sign me up! That's a great learning opportunity, and for just two does, much easier and cost effective.

If you are going to AI, however, I would go for the best registered Nubian semen in your budget. With AI, you have access to genetics you could never dream of outsourcing or purchasing a buck for just two does. You'll never regret taking advantage of that; you'll have some real keepers and there will be a good market for any kids you decide to sell.

If you are stressed about breeding doelings to a standard size buck, don't be. If they are healthy and at least 7 months, they will be just fine.

[mygoat]

What is his 'office freezer'? Semen is to be stored in liquid nitrogen which sits around -340 to -320* or so. You need a nitrogen tank - your vet probably has one I assume if he does other AI?

AI equipment for goats is pretty specific. I got my entire (the fanciest) AI kit from BioGenics http://www.biogenicsltd.com/index.html

You an either AI on a natural heat or induce a heat and do essentially timed AI.
Understand that shipping semen is expensive (so I'd too go with Nubian semen, the best I could find). AI is not a bred-and-done situation, many times they need more than one service to get bred if doing AI - so you may need 2-3 straws per doe per season (though most of us try AI and then use live backup bucks if they don't take, instead of trying again and again).

[dozedotz]

After you clear up the "freezer" situation I would JUMP at this opportunity!! I cannot imagine you would ever regret gaining this knowledge. Personally, we NEVER "rent out" our boys (and trust me, not for lack of asking) and we NEVER bring in a buck for the purpose of breeding...too many disease possibilities for my taste. But, no matter what you decide is good for you this year, I would take that class with your vet...too cool!!

[mygoat]

Bringing in a buck or taking does to bucks can be done if you have reputable breeders in your area that really do understand disease transmission. There is a risk using bucks from non-closed herds, even if they are disease tested. Disease testing only really has to do with a limited number of FAIRLY hard to transmit diseases as well - I'd be more worried about STD diseases like chlamydia, or even things like lice and soremouth. CL is really the only one that would also readily transmit but even without an active abscess present on the doe, it's not likely to transmit. (All of this is considering 'driveway breedings' ONLY, NOT boarding does at a bucks' place, which I'd never do). Disease testing doesn't always give the whole picture, so the 'whole picture' must be evaluated. How often they buy/sell other goats, if they breed their bucks to 'all sorts' of outside does, their biosecurity protocols etc.

Here, I rarely advertise for stud service and only really offer it to a couple really close friends of mine. I breed does that are disease tested for CAE/Johnes, and CL abscess free/tested herds. CL to protect my herd, but CAE and Johnes more as a personal stance against those diseases and breeding of positive/unknown animals as it is pretty low risk to transmit in 'driveway' breedings. I do not board outside does except for a few close, good friends of mine who I trust completely.

[mzgarden]

Thanks to everyone. Some good points to consider. I will double-check with our vet re: the freezer confirmation. He AI's now, just now goats, so I suspect it's appropriate, but definitely need to make sure. Now I need to see if I can line up an AI class.

You guys are always helpful - thanks again.

[suzyhomemaker09]

My immediate thoughts are why on earth you'd want to use a pygmy??!!?!?

I suppose I am not really sure what you are wanting to do with your goats or offspring.

[mzgarden]

Suzy, thanks for asking. The consideration for using a pygmy crossed with our Nubians is the resulting Kinder registerable breed which is gaining popularity in our general area. The Kinder breed may be nothing more than the latest 'flash in the pan' but we keep it in the element of consideration. As we investigate, we find Kinders are a medium size goat with milk production considered to be acceptable for homesteads with smaller needs. Their smaller size has encouraged people in our area to seek them out. Their milk has a good butterfat content and is reported to have higher amounts of milk solids which are important for cheese making.

We spend a fair amount of time with people like ourselves - empty nesters looking for 'grow it yourself' options for personal/family use and not requiring several gallons of milk production daily and having smaller land footprints upon which to raise animals (2-5 acres). Additionally, many of the folks we deal with are seeking multiple livestock options, rather than mono-herds so a smaller animal, smaller footprint, smaller production is desirable.

Hope that helps.