Won't this upset the rumen ??

motdaugrnds · #1 10/01/14, 04:37 PM

I've concluded one of my adult goats died last month of meningeal worms. I have 2 goats I'm going to treat for these types of worms, a 200 lb buck and a 150 lb doe.

My understanding is that I need to give each goat both Ivermectin 1% and Safeguard at 10 times the recommended dosages. The Ivermectin 1% needs to be given daily (either orally or injected) for a total of 3 days; and the Safeguard needs to be given daily (either orally or injected) for a total of 5-7 days, depending on symptoms. I need to know for sure if I need to give these 2 meds at the same time or complete the one before starting the other.

Ivermectin 1%: Since the regular dose is 3cc, then 10 x this is 30cc/100 lbs daily for a total of 3 days. This means the total amount of Ivermectin 1% given a 200 lb buck would be 60cc daily totalling 180 cc over a 3-day period. (For my 150 lb doe, it would be 45cc daily for 3 days.) Can this be alternated in that it be given orally the first day, injected the next day and then orally again the last of these 3 days?

Safeguard: (What I found was "liquid" injectable.)
Since the regular dose is 2.3cc, then 10 x this is 23cc/100 lbs daily for a total of 5-7 days. This means if only used for 6 days the amount of this liquid Safeguard for a 200 lb buck would be 46cc for a total of 276 cc. (For the 150 lb doe, it would be 35 cc daily for 6 days, being a total of 210 cc) Can this be alternated in that it be given orally the first day, injected the next day and then orally again the last of these 6 days?

I've made arrangements to pick all this medication up this Friday; so I really need to know I will be applying it correctly. This is a lot of worm meds to give any goat and I'm concerned about upsetting the rumen.

Can anyone please speak to this concern? I have some Probios Paste I can give orally each day. Will that be sufficient to counter any negative effects this much worm medication may cause?

Alice In TX/MO · #2 10/01/14, 05:44 PM

I have never heard of and never seen injectible Safeguard. Safeguard is a "white" liquid and is given orally.

No, worm medicines will not upset the rumen.

motdaugrnds · #3 10/01/14, 06:02 PM

Alice, thank you so much for responding so quickly. I am very glad the worm meds will not upset the rumen.

I've not seen the Safeguard as yet. I just guessed, since it was liquid instead of paste, that it was to be injected. (It is much easier getting my goats to swallow meds than it is to stick them with needles.)

Alice In TX/MO · #4 10/01/14, 07:02 PM

It's oral. Get one of the small drench guns.

http://www.tractorsupply.com/en/stor...-30cc-capacity

mzgarden · #5 10/01/14, 07:19 PM

Keep us posted as I have not faced this particular horror, but will be watching and learning. I hope all goes well.

motdaugrnds · #6 10/02/14, 05:21 AM

Thanks Alice, That is the very same one I've been using for years. It is easy to use.

Mzgarden, there are a couple of threads about HT'ers dealing with this worm and that is where I got most of my information. It is in the goat forum if you want to read it.

I've been reading of late about "Rumen Restart". I've also read about using the cud from a healthy goat to help the rumen of another goat restart, which was stated as the only sure way. Then I read how wonderful Probios Paste was to help the rumen and recently about how detrimental using Probios Paste can be.

(Information over the net sure is confusing.) I've been raising dairy goats since 1996, making most every mistake in the book as I've learned with my goats always paying the price. Then new information comes out that I try and keep up with ... only to add to the confusion....Is it just me???

Alice In TX/MO · #7 10/02/14, 07:10 AM

The contradictory info is absolutely out there. That's one reason it's important to have a goat mentor, read, make mistakes, learn, take notes, talk with folks on a forum you trust, and do the best you can.

I've taken a cud from a healthy goat to help out a sick goat. Yes, it works. It has the EXACT bacteria that a healthy goat needs. Not a commercially produced facsimile.

Raising goats is difficult. Hang in there!

motdaugrnds · #8 10/02/14, 09:08 AM

Thank you Alice for those encouraging words. This has been one of the most challenging years of my entire life in ways that had nothing to do with the health of my animals; then here came that old meningeal worm. It has really thrown my nerves into a frinzy; so when I cut my herd this year (as I do all years), I took it waaay down, leaving me only 2 grown ones (buck & doe) and one kid. (I was not able to figure out how to get the bucklings neutered this year as I'd done in the past; so I'm pretty sure this little one...only about 80 pounds at 8 months of age...is pregnant. I don't like breeding them this young!) Now I gotta tend to this type of worm! If I didn't love my goats so much and enjoy them so much, I would definately have thrown in the towel!

I'll be picking up all that Ivermectin 1% and all that Safeguard tomorrow, starting both adults on the Ivermectin first...unless someone in here advises me to start with the Safeguard. (I do know Ivermectin takes worms out of tissue; and the only other wormer I've used has been Cydectin, which is given orally and cleans out the digestive track first. I don't know how Safeguard works; but since it is given orally, I suspect it works pretty much like Cydectin.)

What I don't want to do is throw a lot of dead worms into the stomach without giving them a chance to clear out via poop before using another wormer. Maybe I'm scaring myself. Since I'll be using this Ivermectin 1% "orally" too and giving these meds only once daily, maybe their daily excretions will take care of what I'm concerned about....