Looks like I have a coyote problem

CraterCove · #1 09/12/14, 10:19 AM

So, my girl who went down a while back is gone now and it looks to me like coyotes. The attack happened last night... in retrospect my rat terriers were raising hell at a particular time last night but they act as if Godzilla has invaded if they find a squirrel in the yard.

I have posted in the LGD forum to find some help with this. I think I need to get a guardian. I think that would have deterred a coyote... though from the prints around it looks like there was possible three. Definitely not a dog attack... they were eating not shredding.

Bah! I am really upset about this and so are the kids.

GoatGirl123 · #2 09/12/14, 10:25 AM

That's awful! We have coyotes, and maybe a bobcat or two. As soon as we got the goats, we had an overeager LGD who would constantly bark at the woods by the goat yard. We have never once had a predator problem. They know it's her territory and she would guard it with tooth and claw (but not against the goats and people!)

FakeMountainMan · #3 09/12/14, 10:38 AM

I have 2 small terrier mixes who yap a lot at night, mostly at the rabbits I'm sure. But I give them credit for keeping most trouble away. They have killed a skunk, and treed a coon. They also have a distinct bark for 'real' trouble that lets me know to grab a gun and get outside quick. That's always been another dog so far. Thankfully the coyotes have never come near enough to bother us, maybe the woods have enough easy game to keep them happy. But I worry that I will attract them as I add more animals.

TRAILRIDER · #4 09/12/14, 10:43 AM

Oh my! So sorry for you. We have coyotes too. I have even seen one in my barn. My goats (currently 7) come in at night and go out again in the morning. But when I have enough goats that they can't come in at night I will need a LGD.

fffarmergirl · #5 09/12/14, 10:44 AM

I'm so sorry to hear about your poor goat. That would just break my heart.

We have a lot of coyotes here. Our dogs do a great job with them. We don't buy LGD breeds from breeders, we just get our dogs from the pound or from people giving them away as adults and give them a good home. Our dogs are indoors most of the time but they're trained to alert us when coyotes are nearby, then we let them out and the dogs chase the coyotes away. My husband trains them - he just says "what's that?" when he hears a coyote and then opens the door and says "go get him!" The first few times the dogs seem confused about what they're supposed to do but then after a while they start listening for them and letting us know when to let them out.

CraterCove · #6 09/12/14, 10:45 AM

Unfortunately, I am in the early stages of pregnancy and once I am asleep I am dead to the world right now. It's seriously just a black out until morning. Upon talking to my husband and eldest son they said they heard the dogs barking in an unusual manner--- which had I awoken would have been checked out. But neither my son nor husband have an ear for the differences between one kind of bark or another. And since I didn't actually hear it, I can't weigh in, maybe I wouldn't have heard anything out of the ordinary about their barking either.

The place we just moved to backs up to a preserve where no hunting or trapping is supposed to occur so I have been reading about LGDs to try and pick one out... but I have no experience with them.

I spoke to a very nice lady already who was willing to let me borrow one of her older dogs until a puppy she would sell me is grown enough to take his place. I might take her up on that.

Donna1982 · #7 09/12/14, 01:21 PM

I am so sorry for your loss. That is horrible. I hope you find the perfect LGD. I know having ours have saved my goats more then once.

Goats Galore · #8 09/12/14, 01:29 PM

Our neighbor (we share a long fence line) lost 4 goats to the coyotes this spring/summer. Our 2 guard dogs (a Pyrenees and an Anatolian/Pyrenees) work nights, and we never see any on this side of the fence. We do hear lots of barking. They certainly earn their keep.

msscamp · #9 09/12/14, 09:24 PM

The coyotes seem to much bolder this year around here. I've had goats for nearly 8 years and have never seen a coyote even remotely close to my place, although I can hear them howling some nights in the distance. This summer I've seen a half grown coyote within a quarter of a mile of my place, and Dad saw a mother and 2 pups within a dozen feet of the southwest alley pen.

gila_dog · #10 09/12/14, 09:52 PM

I hear coyotes close to the house some nights. But I'm not worried about them. Why? Because I have a 7 ft high fence for my goat and chicken pen. No coyote is going to get in there. There's a 5 ft high livestock panel fence around the yard where my Blue Heeler dog stays at night, and she's safe, too. She barks at coyotes, deer, javelinas, etc. She barked at a bear one morning, and it took off. But she's safe from coyotes in her yard. So I listen to the coyotes at night, and hope they are eating lots of mice and rats and feral cats, and I don't worry about them getting my chickens or goats or my dog. Personally, I don't want a LGD. I keep my critters locked up safe at night and if something comes around my little watchdog lets me know. I switch on the lights and look, maybe get the shotgun and go out and check on things.

Backfourty,MI. · #11 09/12/14, 09:58 PM

I am so sorry to hear about your girl! I can't imagine how terrible that is.
We have 2 Karakachan LGD's. 1 lives with our bucks & 1 with our does'. I never worry about my goats anymore.
I sure hope you find the perfect LGD for you & your set up.
I'd be bringing my goats in a barn, garage, etc. at night until you get something because those coyotes will be back.

cmany · #12 09/14/14, 01:04 PM

We've had coyotes come close only once...up until a few days ago...But that first time, they were close enough to freak out the rabbits and lost a bunch of bunnies from that...

We have a guard Donkey...he does a fabulous job at keeping watch on everything...even herded up my kids when there was a squirrel in a trap we set for a fox...we have so spots in our fence where fox and raccoon's can get through, those spots ensure irrigation water comes through so we can't block it...

Whenever the donkey perceives a possible threat, he herds all the goats to a safe spot, and then goes and investigates...

This summer, we had a bear that was sneaking in and getting our chickens...not all of the roost withing the protection of the donkey...so it got several...Donkey didn't care about them...he would keep the goats in a circle, and watch...

One of my dogs, my blind one at that, chased the bear up a tree right next to one of my pens...and the donkey was ever alert and kept his eyes on it until it moved off...but rather than sounding off like he did with the coyotes, he was super quiet and slowly inched his way closer to the area where the bear was.

Eventually got my electric fence working right, and that deterred the bear...he went on to decimate a couple of other small hobby farms.

My blind dog, last year, got into the goat pen..and I found him laying under this one tree...with the Donkey standing over him making sure he did not move...never hurt the dog but he sure made it clear to him that he was NOT allowed in there.

Eventually, my husband wants to get a real livestock guard dog...but I still prefer the donkey...but it may be necessary, as the donkey won't allow for us to place a halter or anything on him...so we cant lead him anywhere...so a dog would work if we put them in one of my dads fields...

CraterCove · #13 09/14/14, 01:12 PM

Yeah I think an LGD is still a long term project for me. I am looking at getting some cougar urine to spray along our fence line to try and deter coyotes and such. I might look at a donkey though, there seem to be a good deal of them for sale all the time around here.

V-NH · #14 09/14/14, 02:01 PM

Any type of large dog would work if you train them and time it right. I have a hunting dog (treeing walker coonhound) who I have trained to respect goats and the various poultry that I raise around the homestead. Still, when other animals come around he tries to act scary and bays at them.

I had a really weird predator issue the other night myself. I heard one of my turkeys scream around 10pm so I grabbed my bedside pistol and a mag light then went outside to figure out what was happening. Whatever it was got out of the goat/turkey pen as I came down the stairs to the backyard. I thought it was gone, but I was shining my light around the woods just to be sure. A minute into that I caught two eyes with my flashlight and when I focused it on that area I saw the outline of a fairly large cat. It just sat there and watched me for several minutes while I shined the light on it. Made no attempt at all to move or run. I had my wife come out and hold the flashlight on it because I couldn't hold it and shoot accurately at the same time so she held it and I shot it. Apparently I missed (we're talking 50ft away in the dark, so no surprise) but it ran. I did another scan of the woods. This thing didn't run! It relocated about 30ft to my left! I shined the light on it again and it moved away... but I kept catching its eyes with the light. For some reason this thing was sticking around, so I decided to go down the hill into the woods and take another shot at it. When I went down there it backed away and disappeared, so my wife stayed by the house with the flashlight and I went inside to get a rifle so I would have more range to work with. While I was getting it, my wife yelled to me because whatever this thing was started to come toward the hill that leads to the open part of our back yard. I went back out and it drew back into the woods and I caught its eyes again by a huge bush. As I lined up a shot it finally took off for good. All this happened over a 10 minute period of time. No loss of livestock, but it was a crazy experience. No idea what type of cat it was, but it wasn't really very afraid of me.

I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your goat. Coyotes can be a nightmare. They sell cheap metal traps at Bass Pro Shop. I keep a couple in the woods directly around the perimeter of my house and although I have never caught anything in them it makes me feel better to know they are there.

fffarmergirl · #15 09/14/14, 02:26 PM

Sounds like a HUNGRY large cat, V-NH. That's kind of scary.

light rain · #16 09/14/14, 04:31 PM

Coyotes are getting more numerous and closer in our area.(Like really close!) I need to check with the DNR about rules for shooting them.

What was/is their predator?

Since I don't really want to see pups die of starvation, when do they breed?

They start raising a racket around 5 pm in our area which is about 4 hours earlier than in the past.

I am sorry for your loss.

Frosted Mini's · #17 09/14/14, 05:20 PM

If they are like domestic dogs, which I think they are, they would have a breeding season in the spring and fall with anestrus periods in between.

CraterCove · #18 09/14/14, 05:38 PM

I believe, remembering from California where the buggers are prolific but seemed to bother the apple orchards more than the livestock... The males are only fertile in winter. Its one of the reasons that dog/ coyote hybrids are rare, their cycles don't coincide. Though I can say from experience the one hybrid I saw was one of the ugliest things I ever laid eyes upon.

In Florida I thought I only had to worry about gators, pythons, venomous snakes, bears and panthers. :P

They've only started making racket recently and at first I dismissed it as my imagination because I, for some reason, couldn't imagine coyotes in Florida. I suppose this is the time of year young pups will be leaving the dens and their mother's protection so there may be ones out right now that are more hungry than wise so easy pickings are yet more attractive than normal.

We will just continue to reinforce and fix our borders, and keep an eye out for sign. I am kind of thinking in the direction of getting a couple of larger hound pups to hang out with us outside and teach to run after anything that gives me alarm.

V-NH · #19 09/14/14, 06:03 PM

Quote:

We will just continue to reinforce and fix our borders, and keep an eye out for sign. I am kind of thinking in the direction of getting a couple of larger hound pups to hang out with us outside and teach to run after anything that gives me alarm.

I am very supportive of this idea. Treeing Walker Coonhounds are incredibly easy to train, but require complete consistency 100% of the time. Mine is trained to the point where if he is in mid-run and I tell him to drop he will stop where he is and lay on the ground. When he sees food, he lays down and waits for a release command before eating. I also have him trained to go to specific rooms in the house on command and I plan to transfer that to teaching him directions (like go forward vs. turn around) if I can figure out how. Coonhounds are incredibly good at finding loopholes though, so you can't be the type of owner who is like "I don't feel like enforcing the rules so I will let it slide this time." You won't successfully train one that way. It has to be "No, you are NEVER allowed to go near a goat" not "You can sometimes." Just some thoughts... I had to take the opportunity to promote Treeing Walker Coonhounds because I think they are the best breed of dog our there

Good luck with your search!

CraterCove · #20 09/14/14, 06:50 PM

I had a Jack Russel/ Dalmatian mix (yeah weird) that was the easiest dog to train I ever had. I could point to places and he would go and sit where indicated. He was a joy. Thought the funny thing was if he felt like you were just making him do 'tricks' for no good reason he'd start talking back while he did them. He'd still do it but he was grumbling and muttering the whole time.

Being new to my area here I wonder how I can find the correct people to get in touch with about good dogs. I don't need show dogs, I would rather have working line dogs. And I know lots of people would like to argue they are the same but my experiences are pointing more and more towards that not being the case. I truly enjoy an intelligent dog that thinks and reasons on its own. I like training them and learning how to work together with them.

There was a neighborhood dog up in rural Georgia who patrolled and saw everything was in order for about a mile around his own house. I think he was an American Fox hound that really impressed me. He respected my property and when I said an animal belonged then he let it be. I still remember when we brought home a new kitten to be our new barn cat and D.A. (our nick name for him) came up like, "Oh let me handle that varmint for you." It only took one time of me claiming the kitten and letting him know it was mine for him to lay off. I know it's anthropomorphism but I swear he looked at me with the equivalent of a doggy shrug and said, "Whatever, still looks like a varmint to me though."