Vitamins & Minerals ?

Phil V. · #1 08/30/14, 08:11 PM

If you were to have your feed made at a feed mill which ones besides copper would you have put in? I can get feed made cheaper than getting it at places like TSC or RURAL KING.

Alice In TX/MO · #2 08/30/14, 08:51 PM

I wouldn't put it in the feed. I'd buy a good loose mineral and provide it separately.

**mygoat** · #3 08/30/14, 08:59 PM

Basis of diet should be a forage. Quality of forage changes with life stage. Highest for growth, LATE pregnancy (last 4-6 weeks) and lactation.

For grain, we have high producers so have to be careful of too much carbs (leads to acidosis). We feed a local grain mix that we add additional things to. Our grain mix that we purchase is corn, oats, and a dairy pellet plus Vit E/SE supplement and a small amount of molasses that comes to a 16% protein. We mix 12 parts of the grain mix with 6 parts alfalfa pellets (calcium, protein, high quality forage), 3 parts shredded beet pulp (forage high in energy), and BOSS (forage high in fats).

In addition, we provide free choice LOOSE mineral (sweetlix magnamilk) and baking soda.

Finally, we copper bolus and BoSe 2x per year - pre-breeding and pre-kidding. We give both BoSe and Copper 2-4 weeks prior to kidding and breeding.

For our kids, we prefer to feed a pelleted lamb grower because it's easiest. It contains a coccidistat, ammonium chloride, and is balanced 2:1. Without hiring a nutritionist, that's harder to do. It stumped me, at least, and I'm a 'do it yourselfer' good at math. :P We end up creep feeding it early on, and mix it with alfalfa pellets as our hay is meh quality. We mix it 2 parts grain to 1 part alfalfa pellet. As they age we give them one 'scoop' per day, which is about 1.5lbs I'd guess.

Phil V. · #4 08/30/14, 10:04 PM

Thanks for the replies. I have 4 doelings. 2 are 5 months old and the other 2 are 4 months old. I'm wanting to get an idea of what to feed them when I have them bred. Right now I'm giving them ADM kid feed along with some loose mineral mix and baking soda as well as a small amount of hay and all the browse they want.

**mygoat** · #5 08/31/14, 10:20 AM

Early pregnancy they don't need anything besides a decent quality hay, loose minerals, baking soda, and as much clean water as they want. Starting 4-6 weeks prior to kidding, it may help to slightly increase their grain amount. This tells the body it is a 'time of plenty' and when they ovulate, they will drop more eggs. More eggs = more kids, and more kids means lower per kid body weight - much easier to give birth to two moderate size kids than one huge one. Especially for FF'ers.

Late pregnancy is when their nutrition demands go up somewhat (still not as high as lactation!) The problem goats run into as multiple bearers is that they run out of room in their rumen because the kids take up so much space in their belly. If they can't get enough food, they start mobilizing their fat stores - but this leads to a buildup of ketones, and can lead to ketosis which is a vicious cycle of high glucose needs but reduced appetite due to ketone buildup.

This means to meet their requirements, they need to be able to get MORE energy from LESS food. Optimizing their hay quality should come first, and adding a grain ration in during the last 4-6 weeks is ideal. On does that are very heavy bred with multiples, it helps to feed 2 smaller grain rations in the day rather than one large grain ration. The last 4-6 weeks is when I give BoSe, Copper, and vaccinate the does so that their colostrum is full of protective antibodies for their offspring (called passive immunity).

Adding grain to the diet also allows for a smoother transition to their lactation diet. Lactating animals WILL loose weight, don't freak out too much.

It is the hardest work the body will do. The idea is early lactation, they will loose some body weight (make sure to deworm at kidding so they don't loose too much). Once they're a few months fresh their milk supply will be decreasing and their body weight should start increasing. By breeding they should be a decent weight and gaining, by dry period and kidding they should be maintaining a not-fat-not-skinny weight.

Frosted Mini's · #6 08/31/14, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mygoat

Early pregnancy they don't need anything besides a decent quality hay, loose minerals, baking soda, and as much clean water as they want. Starting 4-6 weeks prior to kidding, it may help to slightly increase their grain amount. This tells the body it is a 'time of plenty' and when they ovulate, they will drop more eggs. More eggs = more kids, and more kids means lower per kid body weight - much easier to give birth to two moderate size kids than one huge one. Especially for FF'ers.

I think you might have meant 4-6 weeks prior to breeding. Because if it's 4-6 weeks prior to kidding, they have already long ago released as many eggs as they are going to.

**mygoat** · #7 09/02/14, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosted Mini's

I think you might have meant 4-6 weeks prior to breeding. Because if it's 4-6 weeks prior to kidding, they have already long ago released as many eggs as they are going to.

Yep, sure did mean 4-6 weeks prior to breeding. :P I can't edit it now, but good catch! I blame a brain being mostly used to study for the past week, lol.

Phil V. · #8 09/10/14, 08:51 AM

Tried the loose minerals again and they didn't even touch it. Tried it when I brought them home; left it out for 2 weeks and didn't touch it then. Same way with baking soda. Got some from a friend that has goats that eat it like crazy and mine would not go near it. So if anyone has suggestions I'm open any of them to get them to eat it.

marusempai · #9 09/10/14, 09:48 AM

If I think they need to eat more mineral/soda, I bring a spoon with me when I go out there and stir the containers. I think they figure if the Queen of Food is interested, it must be good, so they eat more.

fffarmergirl · #10 09/11/14, 06:17 AM

I'm confused about not giving them grain during the first part of their pregnancy. I plan to keep milking until 2 months before they kid. That's what you're supposed to do, right? Don't you have to give them grain when they're lactating?

marusempai · #11 09/11/14, 07:46 AM

From what I understand - and this is my plan, have not done yet - if they are milking, you feed them a lactation diet, ie still give them grain. Then when you dry them off two months before kidding, you stop the grain. One month before kidding, you start to slowly add grain back in again, so when they freshen it is not a shock to their systems when they start their milking ration again. A dry doe however does not need grain the first part of pregnancy.

That being said, my question is, I have a doeling that I will (hopefully) be breeding this year - she still needs to do some growing. Should I continue to feed grain (she doesn't get a lot, maybe a cup and a half is all she'll eat) once she's bred to encourage her to continue to grow herself while growing babies? I'm feeding her the way I was told to feed the dry yearling I borrowed earlier this year to keep Sundae company, but I've come to find I was probably giving her a lot more grain than I was meant to (me and Jean have a different idea of what "half a can" of grain is, even when it's the same size can, and she had more opportunity to filch here).

Frosted Mini's · #12 09/11/14, 05:15 PM

I don't give dry yearlings any grain. In fact, if my set up was easier, I wouldn't give them any alfalfa either-just pasture. I don't like dry yearlings, cuz they just get fat here.

Kids, sometimes I have continued to feed grain, sometimes I have stopped around 6 months. For most any of them, I go by body condition for whether or not to feed grain. Nigerians I don't give grain to at all except a tiny sprinkle mixed with alfalfa pellets to keep em busy and to make sure they are getting their alfalfa with the bossy alpines around.

Milkers, I feed them the same through their lactation until dry off, so yes, they would be getting grain in early pregnancy. Unless for some reason they were dried off early. Stopping the grain helps them dry off, so even if I thought htey needed some more condition at dry off, I'd stop the grain for a week or two. Normally, I stop giving grain when I dry off, and they don't get again until 4 weeks before due date, at which time I start with a handful (alpines) and work up to about 1/2 what I would feed typically during lactation when they kid, then slowly increase from there depending on production and body condition.

Alice In TX/MO · #13 09/11/14, 06:01 PM

I never stop feeding grain. Change amounts, don't stop.

marusempai · #14 09/11/14, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosted Mini's

I don't give dry yearlings any grain. In fact, if my set up was easier, I wouldn't give them any alfalfa either-just pasture. I don't like dry yearlings, cuz they just get fat here.

I wouldn't give a dry yearling grain either, but she wasn't my goat, so I fed her the way her owner wanted her fed - nobody wanted Sundae alone for a week, we would have all gone insane from her screaming.

I guess I'll see how Zelda looks then... I'll at least grain her until I dry off the big girls I guess, because it gives her something to do/keeps her out of trouble while I'm milking. Although being bred would also eventually keep her from trying to catch the big girls' tails and jump over the gate into the milk stall.