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Old 07/31/14, 03:46 PM
marusempai's Avatar  
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Blacksburg, VA
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Check my plan again?

So I have a Plan, and once again require it to be double checked for stupid, since I'm new at this.

Until fall, I'm just going to continue to keep an eye on FAMANCHA and all, and only act if things appear to be going south.

About a month before I want to breed the girls, I'll fecal test to make sure, deworm if necessary, and copper bolus. Speaking of copper, what product/how much do you guys use? The labels on those things make it sound like it's one step shy of poison and it makes me nervous. :P

After they kid, I'll give them dewormer, and copper bolus again.

I have one doe I'm milking through this year, and I'll just treat her on the same schedule as the two I'm breeding. Also: I love my Saanens, but did not think about how very far away the nearest Saanen buck is when I bought them, and I haven't decided what I'm going to do about that. :P

So, any stupid in this plan?
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  #2  
Old 07/31/14, 04:30 PM
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Caprice Acres
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I use the copasure cow/calf boluses. Open them up and dose at 1 gram per 22lbs body weight. I usually 'round up' a bit, but not a ton. I bolus goats, many people make their goats fancy treats. Up to you. Bolusing is easier/faster for me.

Copper has warnings because there is such a thing as too much, and animals like sheep are very susceptible to copper amounts. For a long time, goats were not researched and just assumed to be the same as sheep, many things still carry copper warnings for goats as well as sheep, due to this outdated idea. I am NOT the person to dose goats constantly for copper because:

1. Most things people blame on copper bleaching (brown coats) Is just dead hair from environmental damage (ammonia burned hair from laying in 'normal' soiled bedding, sun bleaching etc). My black goats get it on their rear legs and belly quite a lot. True copper bleaching STARTS AT THE ROOT because it is a decrease in pigmentation that is added to the hair as it is synthesized. NOthing but environment can damage already grown hair. If your goats have black/dark shiny roots to their hair, they are likely fine. My alpines get long shaggy scruffy gross hair every year. Some are fuzzier than others. They all look horrible until shaved. After shaved they're shiny and have great color again.

2. NO upper limit has been determined for goats because it's difficult - that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Copper does not clear the body fast, and tends to accumulate in the liver over a LONG time until some 'maximum' load is reached... at which point it is released into the bloodstream and causes a hemolytic crisis from which there is not much you can do to save them. Essentially, it lyses blood cells and kills rapidly. (I am pretty sure the limit has to do with the molybdenum intake as well; The toxicity of copper is the deficiency of molybdenum and vice versa, treatments for toxicity/deficiency depends on these interactions) You cannot test for true copper levels with serum easily since it is sequestered in the liver, a liver biopsy is a better tool for copper levels... not something easily done without a vet. so while it is apparently not high risk because I think people are overdosing their goats quite regularly and I have yet to see any evidence of people having hemolytic crisises...

3. I see no benefit to the overdosing of copper. I dose pre-kidding in the spring to cover worm bloom/parturition/lactational demands in spring, and again in fall to cover health pre-breeding. I do not bolus my 'maintenance' animals which are pets because, IMO, the copper in the minerals should be adequate for their demands as they regularly consume it.

Anywho, I prefer to copper bolus before breeding and before kidding. I also do BoSe at this time. I give CDT along with BoSe/Copper 1 month pre-kidding.
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  #3  
Old 07/31/14, 07:03 PM
marusempai's Avatar  
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 1,040
Ah yes, CD-T and BoSe, I thought I was forgetting something. I'm going to have to write all this down, the trouble is I can't just put it on the calendar because I don't know when I'll be breeding them yet. :P If it doesn't look like Zelda will be big enough, I want to just breed Emerald in October, but if she does, I will wait until November and breed them both at once, so I will have to evaluate in September, I guess. Thanks for all the tips on copper... I don't think they're deficient, just want to stay ahead of that game to prevent worm problems, since it's so wet down here by the creek all the time.
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