What is an "American"

[marusempai]

So I'm a little confused. An "American," as in American Saanen for example, is a goat that, somewhere in its lineage, has a goat that was not a purebred, right? And a "grade" is a goat that is a cross between registered goats of different breeds, or a registered goat and an unregistered goat, right? So is there some point where, if you continue to breed your grade does to purebred/American bucks, they become American? For example if I bred a Saanen doe to a Nubian buck, the doe offspring would be grades. If I bred those offspring to a Nubian buck, they would still be grades, but more Nubian than Saanen. If I continued breeding in this matter is there some point they could be registered as American Nubians? Or are they just grades forever? Or...?

Also, where on earth does "native on appearance" fit into all this?

I'm not planning on doing any of this, mind. I'm just trying to figure out what all these words mean in concrete terms.

[mygoat]

Originally Posted by marusempai

So I'm a little confused. An "American," as in American Saanen for example, is a goat that, somewhere in its lineage, has a goat that was not a purebred, right? And a "grade" is a goat that is a cross between registered goats of different breeds, or a registered goat and an unregistered goat, right? So is there some point where, if you continue to breed your grade does to purebred/American bucks, they become American? For example if I bred a Saanen doe to a Nubian buck, the doe offspring would be grades. If I bred those offspring to a Nubian buck, they would still be grades, but more Nubian than Saanen. If I continued breeding in this matter is there some point they could be registered as American Nubians? Or are they just grades forever? Or...?

Also, where on earth does "native on appearance" fit into all this?

I'm not planning on doing any of this, mind. I'm just trying to figure out what all these words mean in concrete terms.

An american has at LEAST 15/16ths of the breed it is registered as, and meets the breed standard. NOA animals and experimentals (with the exception of those with pygmy OR NIGERIAN BLOOD) can be used in this system of grading up to eventually produce 'american' bred animals.

A grade animal has no pedigree. If an animal is described as a GRADE NUBIAN, I expect it to conform to the nubian standards. These FEMALE animals that conform to standard but were separated from their paper trail can become NOA if another ADGA member comes out, evaluates your animal, and signs a document saying that yes this animal conforms to the nubian standard and doesn't have any serious faults. The term grade is often used to describe an NOA animal, but an animal is not NOA unless it has a certificate. NO ANIMALS with ANY history of PYGMY OR NIGERIAN are allowed to be NOA. Bucks cannot be NOA.

If you bred a Saanen to Nubian, the result would be EXPERIMENTALS. Experimental bucks can be registered. While I wouldn't suggest that particular cross at all for the project of 'grading up' (due to fundamental breed character reasons), yes, eventually you could get the offspring to either american Saanen or american Nubian status, so long as they meet breed standards. First cross would be 50%. Breed those 50% kids to a Nubian sire, and the kids would be 75% Nubian. Breed those to a Nubian, and you'd get an 88%. Breed those to a Nubian, and you'd get 94%, which is American status (15/16ths). including the original cross, it is 4 generations till American.

The Purebred herd books are still open for LaManchas and Sables, but otherwise no other breeds can 'grade up' from American to Purebred.

[marusempai]

That makes sense, thank you! The new question that brings up though is: what is a "registered grade" then? There was a class for them at the goat show this weekend, I thought those were goats that were maybe being bred towards American, but that would actually be experimental goats, right? Or are experimental goats shown as registered grades?

And, just to be clear, to use the Saanen/Nubian example again (not planning on doing anything of the sort, but examples help me): breed a saanen to a nubian and you get grades (50%). Breed those does to a nubian and you also get grades (75%). Breed *those* to a nubian and get still grades (88%). Breed those to a nubian and get Americans this time, right? Or do they have to pass the "native on appearance" test at some point before they are Americans?

[mygoat]

Originally Posted by marusempai

That makes sense, thank you! The new question that brings up though is: what is a "registered grade" then? There was a class for them at the goat show this weekend, I thought those were goats that were maybe being bred towards American, but that would actually be experimental goats, right? Or are experimental goats shown as registered grades?

And, just to be clear, to use the Saanen/Nubian example again (not planning on doing anything of the sort, but examples help me): breed a saanen to a nubian and you get grades (50%). Breed those does to a nubian and you also get grades (75%). Breed *those* to a nubian and get still grades (88%). Breed those to a nubian and get Americans this time, right? Or do they have to pass the "native on appearance" test at some point before they are Americans?

Recorded grade is an NOA or animal with a partial pedigree - 75%, 88% etc. Either experimental or just with lost paperwork.

Here's from ADGA's website:

ADGA recognizes the following breeds: Alpine, LaMancha, Nigerian Dwarf, Nubian, Oberhasli, Saanen, Sable and Toggenburg.

Purebred - the offspring of a purebred sire and purebred dam of the same breed that conforms to breed standards. LaMancha and Sable are the only breeds that can upgrade from the American herd book to the Purebred herd book.

American - the offspring of a sire and dam of the same breed that conforms to breed standards and also has the correct number of consecutive generations of ancestors who conformed to breed standards (minimum 3 generations for does and 4 for bucks).

Experimental - (1) When two different breeds of Purebred or American goats mate, their offspring are eligible to be recorded as Experimental and must be shown in the Recorded Grade class. (2) Purebreds or Americans that have serious enough defects to disqualify them from being registered in their breed, must be recorded as Experimentals.

Recorded Grade - Does who do not qualify for either the Purebred or American herd books.

If a doe meets breed standards for a specific breed, she can be recorded as Native on Appearance (NOA) with a written statement of this breed appearance signed by a current ADGA member (not a member of the applicant's family) that the doe being recorded conforms to a specific breed type. A certificate is issued at the same cost on a brown certificate and the goat is called a Recorded Grade. This goat's daughters by a Purebred or American buck of the same breed would be 50% American, and the great granddaughters would be American, provided there has been three consecutive generations of correct breed type (see American section). ADGA does not record grade bucks.

[marusempai]

That makes sense. Thanks!