How much does a Mini Nubian usually weigh at birth?

ne prairiemama · #1 07/13/14, 05:02 PM

Thanks!

ne prairiemama · #2 07/13/14, 06:40 PM

Anyone?

Josie · #3 07/13/14, 06:42 PM

My f1 s this year weighed 6# I believe.

ne prairiemama · #4 07/13/14, 07:16 PM

Thank you

Frosted Mini's · #5 07/13/14, 11:53 PM

I can't answer for Nubians, but mini alpines are usually around 4-5 lbs...I've had a range from about 3 lbs and my biggest was this year 9.6 lbs!!

Sensiblefarmer · #6 07/14/14, 08:30 AM

Since mini Nubians aren't an established breed, but simply a term used to describe small grades with some Nubian blood and potentially anything else mixed in, there is no way to determine an average size. The range is likely to vary widely, as with any animals of mixed breeding.

Josie · #7 07/14/14, 10:23 AM

My F1s were the product of crossing an ADGA registered Nigerian Dwarf with an ADGA registered Nubian doe. It is my inderstanding that in order to be a Mini-Nubian, they must be a cross of these two breeds, albeit in varying percentages as the generations progress(F1, F2, F3 etc.).

GoldenWood Farm · #8 07/14/14, 10:50 AM

My F1 Mini LaManchas would generally be in the 4-5lb range on average. Granted it could swing a little bit either way depending on how many they have and sometimes you get a 7-8lb baby because genetics are funny like that

.

Justine

Frosted Mini's · #9 07/14/14, 11:14 AM

Sensible, I don't know why you keep posting on these posts about mini's that they are a cross of who-knows-what. I'm sure some of them that people call mini-whatnots are, but then again, any breed of goat can be confused. I've seen craigslist ads calling something with erect ears a Nubian. Anyway, mini-Nubians, mini-lamanchas, mini-alpines, etc, are the result of crossing a Nigerian dwarf with the standard size of that breed. That's the only breeds allowed in the mix.

Sensiblefarmer · #10 07/14/14, 11:38 AM

Yes, I get what they are, but they are simply not a pure breeding breed. They're the goat version of Labradoodles, but they are being passed off as a breed by many people. It's the most basic of breeding and genetics principles that seem surprisingly foreign to so many people nowadays. Do I really have take the time to explain how genetics work in the breeding of pure animals vs mongrels?

paintpony · #11 07/14/14, 11:44 AM

Sensiblefarmer,

You seriously need to get off your high horse. New breeds CAN be created from other breeds. Old breeds didn't just magically become a breed.

GoldenWood Farm · #12 07/14/14, 11:53 AM

Sensible in that case are LaManchas still a mongrel?

Justine

yarrow · #13 07/14/14, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sensiblefarmer

Yes, I get what they are, but they are simply not a pure breeding breed. They're the goat version of Labradoodles, but they are being passed off as a breed by many people. It's the most basic of breeding and genetics principles that seem surprisingly foreign to so many people nowadays. Do I really have take the time to explain how genetics work in the breeding of pure animals vs mongrels?

hmmm.. do you need to take you time to TEACH all us stupid gals how genetics work.. Nope don't think that's really needed ... and after reading your posts on this forum... I know I for one don't WANT you feeling the need to post any more then you already do LOL..

(it's not about your knowledge or experience you claim to have or how darn SENSIBLE you feel you are.. it's all attitude & word choice)..surely there's somewhere else out there in the cyber goat world where folks would hang on each and every word you have to say..

susie

Sensiblefarmer · #14 07/14/14, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paintpony

Sensiblefarmer,

You seriously need to get off your high horse. New breeds CAN be created from other breeds. Old breeds didn't just magically become a breed.

No high horse, just trying to describe the situation as it actually is rather than how a lot of others pass it off as or want to believe that it is because it just sounds so, well, quaint. Yes, new breeds can be created from others. I never wrote that they couldn't. It just takes years and decades of selective breeding until, and this is a big point folks, the young that are produced from a breeding will be predictable, and match the parents in type. Most of these new mini breeds have various degress of size, type, ear length, Roman nose, etc, etc. It seems like there is little sophistication around any more with regard to breeding quality pure lines. Anything goes, especially if it's cute. Put two animals together and people claim to have created a new breed. It just doesn't work that way.

Justine, yes, LaManchas are now a pure breed. I remember when they were a breed in development and when they were first recognized. I wonder how many others here do? They have been developed now to such an extent that they do breed true. In fact in my area, there are many LaManchas which are of far greater quality than the Oberhaslis we have here, which have been a developed breed for much longer, when they were known as Swiss Alipines if anyone knows what I'm talking about. Come to me in 20 years and we'll see how many of these mini breeds in development are still around and can then deserve to be called true breeds. I predict few if any. They are a fad, a product of this nouveaux back to the country movement that we're seeing. The hippies in the sixties didn't create their paradise, and the mini fans won't create theirs. I guess what insults me the most as a breeder about this mentality is the lack of sophistication for and knowledge about producing a quality animal that I see among many who are doing these indiscriminate crosses. If they want to breed mongrels, let them breed mongrels, but don't try to associate them with my purebreds, and keep them out of my show rings.

Otter · #15 07/14/14, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sensiblefarmer

Yes, I get what they are, but they are simply not a pure breeding breed. They're the goat version of Labradoodles, but they are being passed off as a breed by many people. It's the most basic of breeding and genetics principles that seem surprisingly foreign to so many people nowadays. Do I really have take the time to explain how genetics work in the breeding of pure animals vs mongrels?

Yes, please. In the course of your research, perhaps you'll discover just what a mini-Nubian is and isn't. You may also discover how breeds and lines are established, and how many/few generations it takes for a new breed to breed true, when bred towards an accepted standard.

Please also research newborn weights by breed and how they are effected by sex, litter size and number of times the mother has freshened. And when you come back to "explain" to us, provide links to the studies and articles you researched.

Thanks!

Sensiblefarmer · #16 07/14/14, 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yarrow

hmmm.. do you need to take you time to TEACH all us stupid gals how genetics work.. Nope don't think that's really needed ... and after reading your posts on this forum... I know I for one don't WANT you feeling the need to post any more then you already do LOL..

(it's not about your knowledge or experience you claim to have or how darn SENSIBLE you feel you are.. it's all attitude & word choice)..surely there's somewhere else out there in the cyber goat world where folks would hang on each and every word you have to say..

susie

I guess the void between the no nonsense mentality and the emotion driven mentality is getting greater and greater. You bring up one component which is a large factor, which I would love to get into, but I won't. As I wrote earlier, indiscriminate breeding insults me as a breeder, although I'm sure that no one does it intentionally to insult me personally. Obviously the opposite is not true, and I can't make a general statement about the state of things as I see them, without someone taking it personally and lashing back at me with insults. This leads me to assume that maybe I have hit a nerve with those who get a wake up call from what I write, and realize that it hits very close to home. Their knee jerk reaction is to take it out on the messenger with misplaced anger that should be directed at their own irresponsible breeding practices. I guess that only goes to prove my ideas about the sophistication level of the average backyard breeder today.

**mygoat** · #17 07/14/14, 01:59 PM

I do agree alot with what Sensible has to say. However, the delivery is very rude oftentimes.

The minis are currently in development. Yes, they are technically 'mongrels' right now and they are in the process of grading up, gaining passionate raisers with a drive to create a consistent, high quality animal. And no, random breeds are not allowed to cross in to contribute to the gene pool. A registered nigie is bred to a registered full size breed to be considered a first generation miniature, which is KNOWN to be variable. With time and dedicated breeders they will gain consistency as per a 'pure' breed requires.

While I'm sure there are irresponsible breeders in minis, I don't think it's any more common than any other breed of goat. Yes, people should do research on minis and understand they are in development and that they need time for consistency. But, for many people goats are the first livestock and no, they are not genetic whizzes and even often struggle with ruminant management, and don't understand quality breeding. It doesn't matter WHAT breed they decide on, they are going to take years to learn that stuff. Everyone does! I think the grading up program of the minis is a very reasonable and effective, well thought out. There are many dedicated breeders working toward improvement and consistency.

ne prairiemama · #18 07/14/14, 02:54 PM

Wow all I wanted is a the size of an average mini goat. The goats I am breeding are registered, show quality, disease free from excellent lines (the ND buck is double/triple registered) . The ND's are not poor quality and neither are the Nubians.
Though you may consider them mongrels they are very likely to turn out as some ---- good goats

.

"Registered: ADGA, AGS, NDGA
sire and dam have done great in show, his dams awards include 3x best udder & 3x Sr champion, His sire: wins include MULTIPLE wins for each: Grand champion, Champion Challenge, Best in Show, Best of Breed, and he also scored a terrific LA 91 EEE
SIRE: CH AGS Buffalo Clover Valentino *B 91EEE

DAM: PGCH Buffalo Clover Mandy
(sire’s: s-AGS Buffalo Clover Sugar Daddy d-AGS Five Alarm Sophia)
(dam’s: s-AGS Woodhaven Farms Krugerrand d-AGS Bluebonnet Farm Molly )"

Dam's Mom is Raspberry blossom and Grand dam is here in the link, Nubilop Acres Scoobee Doo

http://nubilopacres.tripod.com/senior_does.htm

I have some nice goats that I worked my tush off for and I don't think for a minute that they are worthless if I mix them together. Yes of course there is always a chance that one won't be "perfect" but really I think my odds are pretty good!

Take a google of the word Heterosis it explains some of the positives of cross breeding animals. ND have some positives that standards don't and vice versa. Combine the two and tada! Just what some folks are wanting.

Don't want them or like them? Don't buy them! Be kind to others who do though. If you said half of what you said in a polite manner I have a feeling you would get more kindness back. I don't have to like every breed of goat either but I won't run someone elses choice into the ground on my own opinion.

paintpony · #19 07/14/14, 03:05 PM

Exactly,Ne Prairiemama. I don't have small goats, but I'm not going to tell other people that small goats are worthless. Everyone has their own agenda for their farm. Small goats are great for small farms. And someday, I may have to downsize my place and get small goats. You never know what the future may bring.

Sensiblefarmer · #20 07/14/14, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mygoat

I do agree alot with what Sensible has to say. However, the delivery is very rude oftentimes.

The minis are currently in development. Yes, they are technically 'mongrels' right now and they are in the process of grading up, gaining passionate raisers with a drive to create a consistent, high quality animal. And no, random breeds are not allowed to cross in to contribute to the gene pool. A registered nigie is bred to a registered full size breed to be considered a first generation miniature, which is KNOWN to be variable. With time and dedicated breeders they will gain consistency as per a 'pure' breed requires.

While I'm sure there are irresponsible breeders in minis, I don't think it's any more common than any other breed of goat. Yes, people should do research on minis and understand they are in development and that they need time for consistency. But, for many people goats are the first livestock and no, they are not genetic whizzes and even often struggle with ruminant management, and don't understand quality breeding. It doesn't matter WHAT breed they decide on, they are going to take years to learn that stuff. Everyone does! I think the grading up program of the minis is a very reasonable and effective, well thought out. There are many dedicated breeders working toward improvement and consistency.

I would have much more respect for the mini craze if the breeders and owners all had the same realization as you. But instead it all seems to be about how cuuuuuute they are, how small they are (or people hope that they are) and how much money one can get a sucker to pay, because the term mini is slapped on. Agreed that not everyone starts out knowing it all, but I was very young and dumb when I first realized the basics of breeding quality animals vs poor stock and grades. It's frustrating that there seem to be so many adults who don't want to understand what is quality breeding and what is not. One can "love" their mongrel goat all they want, but it doesn't qualify it to be in the Spotlight Sale, and saying so is not an insult, it is just a fact.