Small Homestead Goats?

[Kristabelle]

We are currently renovating our small homestead and preparing to incorporate homestead critters to our little farm. Based upon our property layout, we currently only have a little over half an acre of pastured area for livestock.

Yeah, we're small! We plan to have some chickens and rabbits, since I am familiar with them and love raising them. I'd also like to incorporate a couple dairy goats into the mix for their milk. My son has a ton of food allergies and cows milk has never really settled well with him. We've had great success with purchased goat milk but I'd like to raise my own.

I'm really really looking into Nigerian Dwarves. I know they don't produce much, but he's the big milk drinker in the family and certainly doesn't go through 1/2 gal a day. I use milk mainly for cooking and baking, but don't really need to use it every day. The more I read, the more I like the idea of the compact but sturdy Nigerians from good milking lines.

Would 1/2 an acre of brushy pasture land be feasible for a couple little goats? I know they may not be able to 100% forage, and I'd be happy to supplement them any feed they need, but I want to make sure they're happy more than anything.

I do live pretty close (Southern Indiana) to a couple Nigerian breeders that breed for dairy lines and I plan to go visit them and look around. If I am able to sufficiently support them on such a small amount of land, I plan to look into getting a couple doelings in the spring. I'm still undecided on whether to house a buck or utilize stud services when the time comes. I plan to sell the babies down the line to offset some of their costs but I want to make sure we have enough room for them. I know that you can stagger Nigerian breeding because they stay in season year round, correct?

We'll be spending the rest of this year and winter preparing their living areas so I have plenty of time for research, but you guys seem like great sources of information!

[hengal]

I really can't help you much with the milking or breeding info but I can give a thumbs up to Nigerian Dwarfs. I have three weathers and love them. We are on three acres and have a fenced in area for the 3 of them that is probably about 1/2 acre and they do just fine. They do graze some, but they LOVE their hay also. They love to get on their hind legs to eat fresh leaves off the tree branches they can reach, and then in the fall, the brown crunchy leaves are favorites as well.
They are like 3 clunky affectionate dogs - all fighting for your attention at the same time. They really have their own personalities and are such fun.
Good luck and have fun! ( We are in north central Indiana and we drove up to Nappanee, IN to get ours from a breeder)

[paintpony]

I can't answer your question about Nigerians, or small goats for that matter. You should also look into mini dairy goats as well. I believe they are a little bigger than Nigerians, but produce more. Also make sure those teats are going to be big enough for you to milk should you decide to hand milk.

You might also think about getting some bred does that have been trained to milk instead of getting doelings. You are learning and the goats would be learning. Plus the first fresheners produce less than an older doe. And yes, you can stagger breedings out so that you always have milk

[dozedotz]

Having owned both Kinders (smaller goats from Nubian dam and Pygmy sire) and full sized Nubians, I have to say that even a couple of small goats will eat your pasture down pretty quickly. Once the brush is gone you will need to really attend to the pasture to make sure it is "good" nutritionally for your girls. Obviously, you will need to supplement, too...even with good pasture...especially for milking girls. Kinders for sure in my experience will eat much less than full sized girls, give really great tasting milk (the best IMO) and are very hardy little things. Nubians are much better looking (again, my opinion). I have HEARD (cannot confirm with personal experience) that F1 mini Nubians are usually good milkers (they are a mix of Nubian dam and Nigerian sire) and have decent teats (but you need to look at the dam and the sire's dam, too!!). Later on they are not as reliably milky (again, just what I have heard from several sources and is a general statement that could be disproven by any particular doe). I would certainly consider Kinders if I were you over MOST Nigerians...for the milk production and teat size. However, if you are careful and picky about your selections (not based on eye color or beautiful coats) you will do ok (again IMO). Good Luck!!

[Clovers_Clan]

For 1/2 acre and less than a half gallon milk ND will be your best bet. If you keep two registered does with good milk lines, you can reliably sell bottle babies. Which means you keep all the milk for yourself and save land for browse. Borrowing a buck will be most cost effective for two does. I raise standard dairy goats and have a large pasture but I have figured out a very productive system of gardening using chickens in portable hoop houses. I rotate garden areas and plant perennial and annual browse on fallow areas; buck plot blends work great. Woven wire is the perimeter fencing with cattle panels and t-post used to partition off areas. I've really built up the soil over the years, its far more productive than pasture land and has a very low percentage of grass, great for goats. My garden area, which measures about a quarter acre, supports 2-3 weanlings (or my buck, depending on who needs a separate space). I give each area a two week rest between, and try not to let it get browsed shorter than 5 inches. I keep them off the area in the winter to prevent accumulation of manure and parasite eggs. In a small area like 1/2 acre, you will have to plan carefully to prevent overgrazing and will probably need to keep them in a more confined pen through the winter. And depending on your location, access to feed and storage, I recommend alfalfa pellets(not cubes) with a little oats and BOSS(black oil sunflower seed). Less waste and storage space with pellets vs. hay.

[marusempai]

My one advice is to watch out for teat size. I am milking my FF Saanen (full sized!), her teats are not bad for FF teats, but they are still small enough to cramp up my hands. I make my eight year old milk her, it's great. We decided against NDs and minis specifically because of the teat issue - they exist with good teats for hand milking, but are hard to find. Also, I have big hands.

[Kristabelle]

Wow, such great advice!!

I truly appreciate it!! My fiance has been spending his afternoon with me researching mini breeds.

Truth be told, I grew up in the country but never knew much about goats and different goat breeds. I knew of the popular ones like nubians and pygmies but not really a whole lot about much more than that. I've spent the past few weeks researching and I learn new things every day. My aunt raised Nubians for years and they're adorable but very, very loud. They're also very very big, by goat standards.

Kinders sound really interesting too. There's a breeder for them about 150 miles away from us, but we won't ever mind traveling for good stock. We're looking for a breed or breed cross that would produce some nice butterfat for versatility too. I know NDs produce high amounts, and I read that La Manchas do as well. Would Mini Manchas be a good consideration? La Manchas are a breed I had never heard of until recently and despite their interesting appearance, I've really read some good things about them. They seem to be good "starter goats" in their temperment and their production. Do Mini Manchas carry those same traits? I know they produce more, but I'd find a use for any milk we get! I've also read that their milk is quite sweet like NDs.

[brettz]

This is basically just an echo of what others have said but I have a small herd of Nigerians. They are awesome - hardy, friendly, not hard on fences, but I definitely agree about the teat size. It was frustrating for me to learn on them and I don't have very big hands. I am actually going to get a manual milk machine because my hands fall asleep milking my does. I am going to be breeding my does to work towards more milkable teats because I think they are perfect goats otherwise. I also have not had full-sized goats so I don't have anything to compare them to however. The other reason I got Nigerians is because it would currently be hard for me to sell the wethers thinking they may be going into someone's freezer. I fully support and agree with raising animals for food. I just haven't turned that corner yet in my own program so I liked that idea that Nigerians wethers are small enough to be good pets. We spend a lot of time with ours and they are as friendly as a cat or dog. They just don't pee on the carpet or in your shoes when they get mad at you.

[Kristabelle]

The fella wants meat goats, but I told him it would be hard for me to help birth a goat and then grow it out to kill it. I know that's weird considering I'm used to chickens and cute bunnies, but you don't have to potentially bottle feed chicks and bunnies. I mean, I guess some people have fostered rabbits but that's not a common thing to do. I may get to that point one day, but right now I'm too maternal.

I told him even though we don't have much land, we could probably get away with buying a "meat quality" wether a couple times a year and finish growing him out with whatever stock we have before sending him off. He wouldn't take up much space in the short time he's here. It's a bit pricier than birthing your own but again, kid sales would offset some of the costs I would think.

I did forget to add that they wouldn't be confined to a small 1/2 acre 100% of the time. We live on 1.3 acres but we utilize some of it as our backyard and the fella has a pretty huge garden planned out. We're fencing the entire property up so with supervision, they'll be allowed to get out and "weed-eat" with me! The neighboring yard is abandoned to the point of just being another acre of poison ivy and weeds. (Yes, we are trying to figure out how to buy it. The owners are hard to find.) I figured that can be free organic treat forage and it'll help clear it away!

I plan to allow them to have the garden in the off season as well so they can finish cleaning it up and fertilize it. My grandpa used to let chickens do this.

Will that help things work better? I want my goaties to be happy and healthy! The fella laughs at how excited I get.

[GeneC]

We have a herd of Nigerian Dwarfs. We don't worry too much about collecting milk, we'd much rather let the new kids have it.

For milk we have a couple of Sanaans, much easier to milk and good quality milk.

[Sensiblefarmer]

I'm not shy about expressing my dislike for Nigerians, for several different reasons. Some people who do like them seem to take that as a personal insult for some reason, so I'm glad to see that multiple others have experienced the small teat issue that I often mention as one of the common down sides to the breed.

Also be careful of the so-called mini breeds. These are nothing more than grades. Their size, type and production will be all over the map, and like any mongrel you won't be able to predict it unless you buy does that are in milk already. Either way they are not a pure breed, so don't be fooled into paying a lot of money for some that are represented that way. They have decades to go before they can be considered anywhere near stable as a breed.

You don't say where you are, but in the long run, 1/2 acre even for two does is not going to be a lot of good pasture, so most likely you will end up in a dry lot situation, or close to it. If you are in an area with a lot of rainfall, you can try to look into extensive rotational grazing to get the most out of it, but that requires a lot of fencing, and some knowledge of the practice, although it's not rocket surgery.

I recommend that you consider two normal sized dairy goats. It's much easier to find good milking lines. The work will be the same as for two mini goats, and the feed not much more. Lamanchas and Toggs tend to be on the smaller side as the breeds go, but there really is not much of a difference between handling them and Nigerians. The so-called mini Lamanchas are crossed with Nigerians, Pygmies and who knows what else, so their temperament is as likely to be as unpredictable as anything else about them, but certainly any Lamancha traits are very diluted at this point in their development.

[marusempai]

Originally Posted by Sensiblefarmer

Some people who do like them seem to take that as a personal insult for some reason,

That's because you usually open with something along the lines of "Nigerians/minis are USELESS!" Some people find them useful and just right for their situation. Some people don't. They exist as a breed for a reason.

[Clovers_Clan]

Originally Posted by Kristabelle

The fella wants meat goats, but I told him it would be hard for me to help birth a goat and then grow it out to kill it. I know that's weird considering I'm used to chickens and cute bunnies, but you don't have to potentially bottle feed chicks and bunnies. I mean, I guess some people have fostered rabbits but that's not a common thing to do. I may get to that point one day, but right now I'm too maternal.

If you can get past that hurdle Kinders would be a great choice. Much easier to milk with all the milk qualities you're looking for. Just be selective about stock. The "root" stock needs to be a Nubian doe with good milking lines. And the sire should be a hardy, thrifty, meaty Pygmy from lines WITHOUT kidding problems. You have enough land to raise a Kinder wether for meat but not enough to reasonably raise a Boer or Kiko. Remember, the money in meat goats can only be had utilizing pasture. Its cost prohibitive to raise them on hay and grain, especially if you are purchasing one. The most efficient time to slaughter a wether is at weaning. Its very costly to bottle raise one, unless you have excess milk that is going to waste. And the growth curve drastically slows after weaning.

So if you are interested in milk and meat on limited land, you can't go wrong with Kinders if you chose the right stock.

[Kristabelle]

We're in Southern Indiana, in the Ohio river valley. We live 1/2 mi from the river so things tend to stay cooler and wetter in our area. I know we will have to supplement them but my hope is that a pair would be okay.

I like the idea of NDs for their milk fat, but I've heard that La Manchas are pretty comparable. I've heard Saanens produce milk that is similar to 2% cows milk, and Nubians have conflicting reports of goaty tasting milk. Again, I'm just learning and asking for peer opinions! I welcome all sides. Learning what experienced goat owners like/dislike helps point us in the right direction.

[Clovers_Clan]

Here's the skinny on milk... Milk fat varies depending on genetics, some lines and breeds are known for volume or milk fat, those are generalities. Taste is another matter. Milk should NOT taste goaty if it has been handled properly and a goat has proper nutrition including access to minerals. To this there are four exceptions. VERY rarely there are plants a goat has eaten that will cause an "off" taste, a temporary problem. Milk can also taste bad due to clinical or sub-clinical mastitis, also temporary. Late lactation milk is higher in somatic cells and will not keep as well, temporary. And finally, there are certain lines of goats that have been bred for specialty cheese making whose milk has a naturally higher lipase content. These goats are rare but could give some breed individuals a bad rap if an owner is unaware of the specifics of the goats lineage.

[Squeaky McMurdo]

My Nigerian Toast milks extremely high butterfat milk (1/2 to 2/3 the jar will be cream after settling a few hours) so she gets to stick around. But I won't be keeping her kids as I have upgraded to minis for the bigger teats and more milk I will get.

I live on 3/4 acre so full size goats would be silly to have. I would only be able to keep two so I would have to pay to take my girls to a buck...who may or may not be tested clean. And I would have to pay more in feed when staggering freshening.

Unless you're a well known breeder around here, a grade goes for the same as a registered doe so I just plan on using my f4 mini Nubian buck on everybody and eating the boys.

[Sensiblefarmer]

Originally Posted by marusempai

That's because you usually open with something along the lines of "Nigerians/minis are USELESS!" Some people find them useful and just right for their situation. Some people don't. They exist as a breed for a reason.

No, I've never written that. That may be your understanding from the honest evaluation I give them as a breed, but I also think that I tend to hit a nerve among some folks who are into emotion based thinking rather than evidence based. For my part, one could hate the breeds that I like all they want and it wouldn't bother me a bit. I like what I like and I know what I know and no one is going to change my mind, because it's based on objective evaluation and not emotional attachment or belief in some fantasy that doesn't pan out in reality.

[Sensiblefarmer]

Originally Posted by Clovers_Clan

Here's the skinny on milk... Milk fat varies depending on genetics, some lines and breeds are known for volume or milk fat, those are generalities. Taste is another matter. Milk should NOT taste goaty if it has been handled properly and a goat has proper nutrition including access to minerals. To this there are four exceptions. VERY rarely there are plants a goat has eaten that will cause an "off" taste, a temporary problem. Milk can also taste bad due to clinical or sub-clinical mastitis, also temporary. Late lactation milk is higher in somatic cells and will not keep as well, temporary. And finally, there are certain lines of goats that have been bred for specialty cheese making whose milk has a naturally higher lipase content. These goats are rare but could give some breed individuals a bad rap if an owner is unaware of the specifics of the goats lineage.

A very good overview of the state of things. Thanks for a dose of reality. The only thing that I would add is that there is always the possibility of a doe of any breed that just produces off flavored milk for whatever reason. It is uncommon, but it also happens in cows. Toggs seem to have been implicated more than other breeds in the past, but I haven't kept up with them lately.

[Frosted Mini's]

Originally Posted by Sensiblefarmer

The so-called mini Lamanchas are crossed with Nigerians, Pygmies and who knows what else, so their temperament is as likely to be as unpredictable as anything else about them, but certainly any Lamancha traits are very diluted at this point in their development.

Mini's are not allowed to have pygmy or any kind of meat goat blood. They are a cross between Lamancha and Nigerian dwarf. Period. The percent of each of the two breeds can vary, but they can't have other breeds in them.

[CAjerseychick]

Actually we have 3 oberhaslis, had 2 minitoggs and one nigerian. Honestly I would go with a oberhasli milking doe- ours was downsized from a dairy and never gave really more than 3/4 a gallon a day and that was plenty. Obers are one of the smaller standard breeds and so gentle- it was our minis that were the jumpers, and escape artists...
dairy goats have to be bred every year or so (I think ours would have milked through though, that is the genetics of dairy goat) and you can eat the offspring. Easy to milk and dont really eat that much. For company keep a NG dairy doe for comparison...

(Our obers are so sweet and gentle friendly and nice mannered)....