Help needed to wean

[cathyj1973]

Back in October 2013 I purchased a new Alpine goatling of a few days old and fostered her onto my old nanny goat. Tish (the nanny) took to Tilly (the goatling) extremely well and within 24 hours I no longer needed to bottle feed as Tish took over all motherly duties. Great, you may think?! My problem now is that Tilly at nearly 9 months old, continues to suckle and given half a chance would take every drop of milk Tish has! At 6 months I said, enough is enough and separated the 2 goats completely. THE NOISE!!!!! I endured it for 2 months!! and finally thought that should be enough time. The second Tilly went back with Tish, the same old cycle started again! At the moment, I separate Tish from Tilly overnight in order to milk her in the morning, (she screams all night!) but she spends all day with her. I have to tether her overnight as she can escape from ANYTHING! Someone suggested covering Tish's teats in something horrid tasting, but so far Tilly absolutely adores English mustard and chilli powder! Help? Any ideas anyone?

[Alice In TX/MO]

You only have two goats? Separating them is torture to them. Goats are herd animals and become very stressed when along.

You need to get more goats. The kid needs to go to another farm for a while.

[cathyj1973]

Forgot to mention Tilly lives permanently with 7 sheep and a young male goat but doesn't like to be separated from food source! Tish very happy alone, in fact I think she finds it a relief to get away from the others at the end of the day!!

[Alice In TX/MO]

Yup. She needs to go to another farm for six months.

[MDKatie]

I've found separating them for a minimum of 2 weeks works, although that's with kids. Can you just separate the daughter and put her with a few sheep for a few months and see if that works? If you have any place that is out of sight from Tish, that would be best.


Another thought is one of those "udder bras", or possibly one of those weaning nose rings.

[mygoat]

If you're moving the doe to live with a 'young male goat', just be aware that young male goats can breed readily at around 12 weeks of age.

I'd get a goat bra or get more goats to separate them with.

[Backfourty,MI.]

I would also get a udder support/goat bra. They work great. Hoeggers seel's one but not sure of any other place.

[Alice In TX/MO]

[coso]

I'm with Alice. I had one like this once. Took her to Dad's for a couple of months, brought her back home, she went right back to sucking the doe !!! One of the reasons I don't like to dam raise also !!

[Alice In TX/MO]

I had a Mini-Mancha kid who spent six months at a different farm. She *tried* to suck when re-united with her dam. It was the dam who put an end to that.

[MDKatie]

Coso, how old was the doe when you weaned her? I'm wondering if these super tenacious nursers were weaned at a late age or the owners let them "naturally" wean?

[cathyj1973]

Many thanks for all your replies. I will try and make a "goat bra" over the weekend and see how that goes!
MDKatie - our doe was bizarre! We bought her at a week old, but she never ever wanted milk (even from birth at the farm) so from birth was fed on pelleted food! Never really had a mother but very maternal herself!

[coso]

Katie, That has been seven or eight years ago, so I don't really remember how old she was. I would say four months old or so. Dad had one a couple of years ago that was the same way. I brought her to my house, until the doe he had was dried up for the year !

[Sensiblefarmer]

The catty attacks will probably resume because I dare mention it, but this is a great example of, and one of many reasons why bottle feeding is preferable to allowing goat kids to nurse.
Bras for goats? Is it any wonder why much of the rest of the world thinks Americans are nuts?

[wintrrwolf]

Originally Posted by Sensiblefarmer

The catty attacks will probably resume because I dare mention it, but this is a great example of, and one of many reasons why bottle feeding is preferable to allowing goat kids to nurse.
Bras for goats? Is it any wonder why much of the rest of the world thinks Americans are nuts?

We do go a bit over the top sometimes...
I have done it both ways never really been an issue. Pawnee weaned her girls at 6 months. I pulled Penny off of Feline at 4 weeks and bottled her along with Vanilla after 2 weeks the babies got to join the bigger girls and Feline didn't let either one nurse.
So not sure how to suggest help for you.

[Ford Zoo]

Originally Posted by Sensiblefarmer

The catty attacks will probably resume because I dare mention it, but this is a great example of, and one of many reasons why bottle feeding is preferable to allowing goat kids to nurse.
Bras for goats? Is it any wonder why much of the rest of the world thinks Americans are nuts?

I am more offended by your "Catty attacks" accusation than by your overly strong opinions of goat rearing techniques that differ from your own...

To the OP, I would say you have a unique situation with your individual girls. Your story reminds me of our buck Otto. We purchased him as a 12 week old weanly buckling and brought him home, housing him with some wethers away from the does. At about 10 months old we exposed him to a mature, dry, open doe for his first breeding. He woo'ed her for 5 minutes like a big boy, mounted her and hit the mark, then instantly dropped to his knees and started suckling. It took her a moment to realize he shouldn't be doing that! He's three now, but in the off season he still hollers across the yard to the does like a hungry kid wanting a teat.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Each of us has reasons for raising goats as we do.

I don't bottle raise because I don't like it. Bottle feeding doesn't fit in my life at all.

The picture of the goat in a bra was NOT due to having to wean kids. It was due to her HORRIBLE udder. I purchased her at a time that I needed milk more than I needed genetics. She couldn't move faster than a walk without the bra. She was absolutely more comfortable with it. The only kids she had here were bucklings, and they were wethered.

Americans are not the only ones to use some type of device like this.
http://www.britishnews.co.uk/bizarrearchive/goatbra.htm
http://ngishili.com/?p=110
http://www.awdalpress.com/index/archives/20321

If you bottle raise goat kids, more power to you. I won't unless I'm forced into it.

[Otter]

Originally Posted by cathyj1973

Never really had a mother but very maternal herself!

This is actually usually the reason. Weaning is initiated by the mother, except in very rare instances. If the mother (or foster mother, as in this case) never makes the kid (calf, foal, puppy, kitten - anything) stop nursing, they generally just will keep on doing it. This is why those weaning rings work - they make the mother kick.

Originally Posted by Sensiblefarmer

The catty attacks will probably resume because I dare mention it, but this is a great example of, and one of many reasons why bottle feeding is preferable to allowing goat kids to nurse.

Catty attacks? Because people call you out every time you jump on to a thread with nothing helpful, just a snide sort of "I told you so"? Fine, you are against dam raising, we get it. Don't open these threads if they bother you.

Originally Posted by Sensiblefarmer

Bras for goats? Is it any wonder why much of the rest of the world thinks Americans are nuts?

You do know these aren't an American invention, right? That they've been used in Europe since before Columbus sailed? If you're going to breed animals for excessive mammary development and production, a few of those girls are going to need support, plain and simple.
Thread drift, but having friends in other parts of the world, Americans get a bad rap for the way a vocal few loudly proclaim their opinions as The One And Only Truth, regardless of any facts to the contrary, more than for things like using a device widely used for hundreds of years nearly everywhere dairy animals are kept. Or for dam raising and the occasional trouble weaning.
Speaking of which, I've a 10yo doe who will still mug me for a bottle. I can't let her see me fix the bottles for the babies, the silly old dear.

[Sensiblefarmer]

If indeed these goat bras were in use in Columbus' time, it is because the people of the time had a much lower standard of living, and had to cherish every doe in milk that they had, no matter how many detrimental faults. And of course they did not have much knowledge of genetics and selective breeding techniques. Today we know better, well at least we have better information available to us I guess I should say, so that we don't have to keep a cull animal with a fault that negatively affects her quality of life.

But we're digressing. The use of an udder support is intended for something other than the problem at hand. I just wanted to point out that calling it a bra is just another in a long list of foolishness that people do today in humanizing their animals. My information is helpful to someone who may want the most direct and efficient way of doing things, without a lot of extra consequences. Funny how many ways people find to justify a practice which clearly has caused a problem and is likely to cause others, simply because they don't want to hear that they're wrong. The fact remains that few bottle fed kids try to nurse well past weaning age, and if this kid were bottle fed it probably would not be having this problem. That information should be helpful for someone who may want to avoid having that problem in their herd.

Also, no one mentioned that tethering a goat while alone overnight is dangerous. They can find all sorts of ways to strangle themselves.

[Otter]

Originally Posted by Sensiblefarmer

If indeed these goat bras were in use in Columbus' time,

If you're going to call someone a liar hon, it's best to just come out and say it. Dancing around it is beneath an adult.
Of course, 12 seconds spent googling is often enough to prove or disprove something and then there's nothing to dance around.

Originally Posted by Sensiblefarmer

it is because the people of the time had a much lower standard of living, and had to cherish every doe in milk that they had, no matter how many detrimental faults. And of course they did not have much knowledge of genetics and selective breeding techniques.

Are you saying that you believe that everyone who lived before Columbus' time were dirt poor, ignorant peasants too dumb to better themselves or their livestock? Well, that's just insulting to your ancestors.
It denies the fact that we have distinctive breeds today that have been just as distinctive since the 1300s and before - like Beagles. Did you know the first record of Merino sheep dates to 1307, and for a while, in Spain, they were illegal to export and the penalty was death? They didn't want breeding stock getting out. Humans have known for a good long while about selective breeding, and we are FAR more likely today to let an animal slide than at any other point in history. And that is because we don't rely on them as heavily as our ancestors did.
Trust me, if a good dairy animal made the difference between your kids living through winter or not, if you had a cull, you knocked her on the head and ate her and fed that hand-harvested hay and grain to something else. If you had one with a small problem, like excessive mothering instinct (which was not really a problem, per se) or all that milk made the old girl's udder sag uncomfortably, you fixed it.
History is fascinating, everyone should study it.
But now I'm digressing.

Originally Posted by Sensiblefarmer

My information is helpful to someone who may want the most direct and efficient way of doing things, without a lot of extra consequences.

What information did you give? If you answered the OP's question, I'm afraid I missed it. Would you reword it for me? All I saw was a not-entirely-polite remark on dam raising in general.

Originally Posted by Sensiblefarmer

Funny how many ways people find to justify a practice which clearly has caused a problem and is likely to cause others, simply because they don't want to hear that they're wrong.

I'll be sure to tell Mother nature, next time I run in to her.



OP, it's an unusual problem, and the reason it's an unusual problem is because it has nothing to do with the kid. All babies will nurse just as long as their mothers (or foster mothers, as in this case, or with my doe) will let them, and most mothers get pretty sick of it once the baby is old and obnoxious. The problem here is really that the doe keeps letting her. That is why weaning rings work. The kid (lamb, calf) wants to nurse just as badly as it did before, but the rings make the mother kick. Your best bet is a goat bra, and googling that will give you many links both to buy them and with instructions for making them. If you google "udder support" you'll get far more info for cows.