Sick Goat & We're Scratching Our Heads...

AugustRED · #1 06/07/14, 09:13 PM

4yo Nubian doe, we raised her from birth, she freshened (2nd) in February, currently in milk, fed 3rd cut alfalfa/lil grass hay, minerals, DE. Was healthy, eating, producing well, etc. Monday came into the barn she was flat on her side, neck stretched out, could tell she'd been thrashing some, breathing somewhat labored, a little bloated (not extreme, still soft sided). Hauled her into the vet - he ruled out worms, no tempature, said she may be bleeding internally possibly from a ruptured internal abcess, suggested putting her down (farm vet). *She is CAE+ via anitbody test, had one (1) absess on her neck which was about 6 wks ago, otherwise symptom free.* We didn't put her down. Since then we've been doing support + anything we can come up with - IV fluids, she'll take water via syring in her mouth but can't sip, added vitamins/molasses to that. She's actaully pooping & peeing just fine & doesn't seem to have slowed although I don't know where she's getting it at this point. Thiamine shots. Changing her position (she hasn't been up since we found her). Deep bedding. Her legs & neck are stiff but flexible, like we can bend them but given a choice she keeps them straight. We roll her onto her sternum and put bales of hay on either side to keep her up but she eventaully works her way flat again. She did seem to be getting better on Wednesday - actaully kept herself sitting up on her sternume & ate & drank some one her own, even acted like she wanted to get up. Next day she was back to square one. We just don't know what to think/try. And to top it off my brother's wedding was on Friday night so we were trying to fit all this doctoring/researching around preparation but now we can really focus although not sure where to go next? Her eyes have remained clear, she still twitches when flies land on her...

This came on fast but now shes pretty much been the same for almost a week - what could prossibly being going on? I keep expecting to walk into the barn & find her dead but she's hanging in there & we really want to try and save her if possible...

Frosted Mini's · #2 06/07/14, 10:09 PM

Do you mean she tested CL positive? CAE does not cause abscesses.

Rosepath · #3 06/08/14, 11:14 AM

Could she have tetanus?

**mygoat** · #4 06/08/14, 01:29 PM

Keep taking her temp. That can change esp if it was early in an infection. It can also help indicate more severe problems as they will drop temp as their body shuts down.

Keep hay/water in front of her - if her gut shuts down from not eating, you'd have to use a PVC pipe speculum and tubing down to the gut to tube her with something like soaked timothy/alfalfa pellets or something.

You may consider some sort of pain relief/anti -nflammitories if you think it may help. I would discuss this with a vet as there are considerations there with immune supression and how much the (possibly) already stresed organs can handle as many of the anti-inflam/pain drugs are tough on kidneys or liver.

Otherwise, with no symptoms or sites of interest, its hard to say what the issue is. Personally, I probably would have done Entero antitoxin as a shot in the dark. Once a goat goes down for a length of time and won't get up, I have yet to hear a story of them ever getting back up again. Maybe it happens, but prognosis is not good. Necropsy may be of interest to you if she doesn't improve. Up to you when you want to make the call that her quality of life/your quality of life having to do all that work/money/value of the animal all balance out to "time to euthanize".

AugustRED · #5 06/08/14, 01:32 PM

I get CL & CAE mixed up, the goats are my mothers deal, believe she was tested for CAE, not sure about CL. Your right, CAE causes wasting & swollen joins in most cases, not abscesses...

Don't believe it's tetnus - she's stiff but not rigid or experiencing spasms, her jowl isn't tight, she opens her mouth to bleat. She was able to sit up & hold her head, even eat/drink a little on her own on Wednesday before she went back down hill...

Cyngbaeld · #6 06/08/14, 03:13 PM

I agree that once a goat is down for any length of time she is very unlikely to get up again. IMHO, she is suffering and it is time to let her go.

wintrrwolf · #7 06/09/14, 07:55 AM

I am so sorry.
You ruled out tetanus.
My first thought was Ketosis, then I thought food toxin, then I swung back to Ketosis.

**mygoat** · #8 06/09/14, 08:29 AM

Ketosis should not be an issue in a non pregnant animal with that diet.

Backfourty,MI. · #9 06/09/14, 10:23 PM

What about meningeal worm?

AugustRED · #10 06/10/14, 01:40 PM

Well she died yesterday evening just as I was thinking we should probably put her down. We buried her this morning & my mother did an amateur autopsy as she normally does when the cause of death is unknown. I was busy elsewhere but she reported that Bessie's stomach & rumen where quite full even though she has eaten very little in the week she was down. She continued to poop & pee so some was getting through but for some reason some wasn't or it was just going really slow? Lunges were full of blood/bloody. Liver looked good except a very small area but wasn't an abscess? Heart looked good. Kidneys - one was about half the size of the other & both were surrounded in hard fat, one looked normal color, one was quite dark. Spleen was dark but pretty sure it's supposed to be since it stores red blood cells. She didn't notice any abnormal growths, tumors, or abscesses. Granted all this is second hand from a non vet but might have some clues. Flower, her daughter who was housed in the same pen is just fine, bursting with energy so don't think it was anything contagious. Just weird how she went down so fast but then hung on for so long...

Backfourty,MI. · #11 06/11/14, 09:25 AM

I am so sorry you lost her.
Maybe someone will be able to tell you what could have been wrong from your description of the autopsy your mother did.

Cyngbaeld · #12 06/11/14, 09:35 AM

Sounds like at least a partial ileus where the bowel shuts down. Can be several reasons for that. I expect the main problem was the kidneys. You don't say whether one was larger than normal and the other normal size or if one was shrunken or which was darker than normal. Could have been a malignant tumor in one or total failure of one that caused hypertension and heart damage leading to heart failure and bowel shut down.

I doubt anything could have been done to save her.

AugustRED · #13 06/15/14, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cyngbaeld

You don't say whether one was larger than normal and the other normal size or if one was shrunken or which was darker than normal.

Sorry, one was normal size, shape & color. The second was about half the normal size & darker.

At least everyone else is healthy & we have several very nice offspring from her...

Cyngbaeld · #14 06/15/14, 11:55 AM

Then probably hypertension from the failed kidney that caused heart failure and ileus. That happens in humans too. It is called malignant hypertension and they normally remove the failed kidney, hoping the other will continue to function. Frequently the second fails and the patient goes on dialysis or gets a transplant. Hardly feasible in a goat. So sorry you lost her, but not likely there was anything you could have done for her.