Feed Store doesn't have goat ration...

sahmoffour · #1 05/18/14, 10:38 PM

I have 3 kilo yearling does that are a bit underweight, and I really want to get them up to a good condition for breeding in the late fall. We've been trying to keep our feed program as natural and basic as possible, and so far they've been getting good quality alfalfa hay, browse when in season, and Right Now Onyx minerals free choice.

The feed store won't get goat ration unless we order a ton at a time, so I need to look at making my own mix. The closest goat ration is an hours drive and it's medicated, whereas I'd prefer to feed as natural as possible, only medicating when needed.

I keep finding tons of conflicting recipes with lots of different grains/additives in them. Does anyone have a simple grain mix with ratios they mind sharing? Also keeping in mind I need to get some weight on these gals?

Thanks!

Squeaky McMurdo · #2 05/18/14, 10:58 PM

Oats work well for putting weight on animals.

I am personally using 2 parts alfalfa pellets, 1 part oats, and a handful of BOSS to put weight back on my little mini-nubian doeling that had stopped eating. It has worked well for me before.

ykcharrier · #3 05/19/14, 03:36 AM

I like using the Langston University Ration Balancer.

http://www2.luresext.edu/goats/resea...bruary-20-Goat

Clovers_Clan · #4 05/19/14, 06:00 AM

Ditto on the oats, BOSS and alfalfa. Beet pulp is good too. Have you run fecal tests on these does to be sure its not a parasite issue? Also, take notes on these does if your goal is natural meat production and there are no extenuating circumstances (i.e. just been purchased, moved, weaned, etc.). Kikos have been bred to be very hardy, if you have some in your herd who are not living up to that you may want to cull.

Sensiblefarmer · #5 05/19/14, 06:43 AM

Those of us who were keeping goats before the Boer industry started remember a time when there were no goat specific feeds. We did pretty well with cattle formulations. Unless you are getting advice from an agricultural nutritionist, you simply cannot formulate a complete and balanced ration at home. Any of the recommemded concoctions may or may not have various rates of gain for your animals, but optimal results will be obtained from a feed that was developed by scientists specifically to do what you want. Even if you have to settle for second best and use a cattle feed, you'll be far ahead of the game than by trying any hit or miss mixes with limited ingredients.

CraterCove · #6 05/19/14, 07:52 AM

Nutrition is not complicated, really. If you are looking to get them fattened then they need more carbohydrates and fats and if you want more meat on them they need more protein. I might be concerned about parasites if you are feeding what you are and still have skinny girls.

Rolled oats have a lot of carbohydrates, and a good amount of fats and protein.

The black oil sunflower seeds are wonderful source of fats and protein necessary for meat and dairy production but they also help the rumen maintain at optimal levels by decreasing certain 'bad' protozoa and bacteria.

And if you are filling the gaps with a mineral supplement then you should have your bases pretty well covered.

sahmoffour · #7 05/19/14, 09:37 AM

Thanks everyone, a lot of different views here but makes me look at all sides at least!

We live in AB, Canada too, so not sure if that makes a difference. Maybe I should have been graining them over the freezing winter months as they may have just needed more calories to help keep warm?

CAjerseychick · #8 05/19/14, 11:06 AM

Feedstore lady has her own herd goats(she remembers training my current goat vet back in 4H as a child!)- says a good backup ration if no goat feed is MOB molasses oats barley.... they like it alot and you can mix it with alfalfa pellets if you want....

Sensiblefarmer · #9 05/19/14, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Nutrition is not complicated, really.

I beg to differ. Ever read a feed tag? All that stuff is not put in there just for fun. If it were that easy, we wouldn't need formulated feeds. A handful of seeds, a bucket of oats and some unspecified mineral supplements and all livestock would be fine. Different feeds for different species and different life stages and production goals are not made by simple guesswork. There is a lot of complicated science that goes into it. Not all components are created equally either. Simply saying that more protein equals more meat is overly simplistic and incorrect. Hair and fingernails are protein, but they're not easily digestable enough to be used as a good source in feed. Minerals must be chelated in order to be bioavailable, etc, etc. Nutrition is a very complicated science, that is still not fully understood and is continually developing.

copperpennykids · #10 05/19/14, 02:36 PM

You might want to try a good horse pellet. That is what we are feeding our high production Saanens and they are milking well and look good too. Costs $2.00 less/bag and is actually a better feed.

(I would try to get a good dairy cattle lactation feed, but no one carries that around here).

Pony · #11 05/19/14, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sensiblefarmer

I beg to differ. Ever read a feed tag? All that stuff is not put in there just for fun. If it were that easy, we wouldn't need formulated feeds. A handful of seeds, a bucket of oats and some unspecified mineral supplements and all livestock would be fine. Different feeds for different species and different life stages and production goals are not made by simple guesswork. There is a lot of complicated science that goes into it. Not all components are created equally either. Simply saying that more protein equals more meat is overly simplistic and incorrect. Hair and fingernails are protein, but they're not easily digestable enough to be used as a good source in feed. Minerals must be chelated in order to be bioavailable, etc, etc. Nutrition is a very complicated science, that is still not fully understood and is continually developing.

Golly. How in the world did anyone survive before feed companies?

Sheesh.

CraterCove · #12 05/19/14, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pony

Golly. How in the world did anyone survive before feed companies?

Sheesh.

I don't know... before there were feed companies I had a terrible time because I fed my herbivores bags of fingernail clippings and hair.

Pony · #13 05/19/14, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraterCove

I don't know... before there were feed companies I had a terrible time because I fed my herbivores bags of fingernail clippings and hair.

Feed Store doesn't have goat ration... - Goats

Too funny!

thaiblue12 · #14 05/19/14, 08:42 PM

Mine seem to do well on hair, one ate a 2 inch wide by 3 inch long strip of mine, she had a nice rumen going on after that.
Never tried fingernails, mine prefer to get protein off my knuckle skin when they slam into my hands for bottles, softer and more protein I think then nails.

sahmoffour yes they like to eat more in the winter, hay keeps them warm from the inside out. Everyone feeds differently due to what's available and etc. I feed two parts alfalfa pellets and one part noble goat feed. I avoid corn and molasses which are empty calories and goats get fat inside first before you see it on the outside. They have a harder time kidding if they are too large, not to be confused with a good working rumen.
You should check for worms and if they are clear add a handful of BOSS a day, not too much as it is pretty fattening, but it makes their coats nice and shiny.

Squeaky McMurdo · #15 05/19/14, 10:59 PM

The "goat feed" I can get here at my feed store is nothing but corn, oats, barley, and ground alfalfa with molasses added in that order. It's considered a specialty feed so a 50 pound bag costs more than several bags of the ingredients needed to make my own feed.

A lot of feed companies are more concerned about cutting costs and feeding their bottom line than they are with actual nutrition. Their feed just has to keep animals alive, doesn't mean they thrive on it. Sure, there are good brands out there, but they aren't always readily available to those far away from a larger feed store. Even if it is a good feed, it still gets marked up oftentimes.

anahatalotus · #16 05/19/14, 11:21 PM

I believe when overwintering goats they need extra lower quality (I don't mean poor quality but it doesn't have to be second cutting alfalfa) hay to keep the rumen very active and burning more calories. Calories from food consumption are transferd into heat when they are low quality calories,I worded that poorly, but basically if the rumen is working over time digesting poorer quality hay then the rumen is heating the goat from the inside out. I also fel that in the winter the rumen benefits from added yeast. I never gave added yeast when they were primarily on fresh browse though because anyone who's started sourdough knows there's plenty o yeast in nature.
Oh yeah for the original question... I agree with BOSS, oats and would also add coconuts if possible as they are high in fat, carbs and copper. Probably not local or economicsl though... There is also the possibility of adding browse to the goats diet by cutting or collecting neighbours weed, tree clippings. I did that with my first goat but I lived in a city then and wanted to create a natural diet for her, lol.

Clovers_Clan · #17 05/20/14, 06:58 AM

Nutrition is very complex...

Its a science, when its studied in highly controlled environments, using a large control group of near genetically cloned animals, often using byproducts to hold down cost in order to make food cheap for American consumers. When done well the use of byproducts is a highly creative way to be environmental friendly. When done poorly, it leads to unintended consequences such as Mad Cow disease, the proliferation of e-coli and overuse of antibiotics. Hmmm... what have I just described? The Concentrated Animal Feeding Operation!

For the homesteader, nutrition is more of an art. We have animals with a wide variety of genetic make-ups. Living on diverse browse and graze, with preferences and grazing habits that defy scientific study. Our feeding methods, and formulas must be constantly altered to adjust to seasonal changes, rainfall, life stages and individual disease resistance. Having limited storage and credit, we have no incentive to by in bulk and our feed stuffs by necessity and ethical choice are local.

If we as farmers are smart, we will glean what information we can from nutritional studies(there are very few conducted on goats), and tailor them to our own situation, knowing we probably fall somewhere in between these two models. It's not perfect, but we learn by observing our animals and passing along our experiences to other. Just one of many things that makes this forum great!

Alice In TX/MO · #18 05/20/14, 07:01 AM

Be very careful with landscape plants as a food supplement. Some are toxic.

http://fiascofarm.com/goats/poisonousplants.htm

coso · #19 05/20/14, 10:02 AM

I am actually backing off on my BOSS . I was talking to a goat guru friend the other day. She talks to a vet that is very good with goats, and has a great show herd out west. According to them if you get your fat % too high in your ration it can be detrimental to the rumen. Fat should be around 3% or so for optimum rumen function according to them. JMO Like I said I put a lot of faith in her feeding program My fat in my pellet runs 2.5% so I'm just putting a little bit of BOSS on that to topdress.

sahmoffour · #20 05/20/14, 10:20 AM

Wow, this forum is so awesome.

I will run a fecal first to make sure it's not just a worm problem. And I think I'll go with the majority as it does follow my line of thinking of less is more, and I'll start with some whole oats top dressed with a bit of BOSS.

What are everyone's thoughts on calf manna?