How long to bottle feed future herd sire?

CarolynRenee · #1 05/15/14, 05:04 PM

We bought a Boer bottle buckling to be our future herd sire. He's ten weeks old today and is sucking down a half-gallon of milk a day as well as eating goat chow (as much as he can eat in the approximate 15 minutes the other older goats are tied up & eating) hay and occasional greens tossed to him.

I know most breeders wean their kids to sell at eight weeks, but if the kids are staying here I normally let them nurse at least twelve weeks, sometimes longer.

Is there a DIS-advantage to feeding him milk for a longer period of time?

dozedotz · #2 05/15/14, 05:44 PM

o boy! Here we go again!! LOL. We have Nubians...dairy goats. We feed all the kids milk for months and months. We have not had any problems due to feeding them milk. The boys are as friendly as the girls and they are big and healthy...that may not be because we feed them milk for so long...who knows. BUT it sure hasn't hurt them. I think all kids should get milk for at least 3 months and I tell my buyers that...I know some of them do not take my advice and are very happy with their bucklings. So, there you have my opinion...feed them milk for as long as they want it. We are feeding the 2 boys we still have here (they leave in two weeks when they will be 8 weeks old to go to their new homes) 4 times a day for roughly 20 ounces a feeding and they are eating really good alfalfa hay (KA), weeds and water...no grain. They are close to 40 pounds at 6 weeks. The 2 girls from the same group of quads will also leave here in 2 weeks and they are taking about 15 ounces 4 times a day and weigh in at 25 - 28 pounds....boys started at 7 pounds and the girls were 5 and 6 pounds at birth.

Doug Hodges · #3 05/15/14, 05:52 PM

40 lbs at 6 weeks? Wow

dozedotz · #4 05/15/14, 05:56 PM

I'm going to get a photo tonight, Doug, so you can see these monsters! Now, keep in mind that their sire is Buttercup Acres Knox r Sox Off and he is a Lakeshore boy out of lots of CH stock - he is 2 1/2 years old and weighs in at 300 pounds (tape) and he is not fat! The one boy is definitely his son! The other boy is only about 33 pounds.

Doug Hodges · #5 05/15/14, 05:57 PM

Cool. I can't wait.

CarolynRenee · #6 05/15/14, 06:01 PM

Greeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat. Make me jealous of your beefy Boer! (admittedly can't wait to see pics though)

Doug Hodges · #7 05/15/14, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarolynRenee

Greeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat. Make me jealous of your beefy Boer! (admittedly can't wait to see pics though)

These are Nubians

CarolynRenee · #8 05/15/14, 06:14 PM

Sorry, had "Boer" on the brain!

dozedotz · #9 05/15/14, 08:06 PM

LOL. Sorry it took so long...we were closing up for the night (going to get to freezing again!) and had to milk, etc. Anyway, you will quickly see that none of us are very good at posing for photos...but I think you will be able to get an idea of just how big the boy is...and his brother is no slouch either. The biggest boy is the one with the brown ears. The boy clinging madly to the bottle against all comers is the smaller one. Mac calls the big boy Clyde for Clydesdale...wonder why?? The last picture is for those of you who cannot get your kids to line up for their bottles...keep trying and you will have exactly what we have: insanity.

Sensiblefarmer · #10 05/16/14, 05:15 AM

To answer the original question, the only disadvantage to not weaning at 8 weeks is all of the extra time and work that it makes for you. There is no advantage to bottle feeding past 8 weeks in a normal, healthy kid.

dozedotz · #11 05/16/14, 09:09 AM

Lots of people feel exactly as Sensiblefarmer. We disagree. But, again, lots of ways to raise goats and this forum proves it! Also, we tend to stick with what is successful for us. Dairy goats are usually meant to last a little longer than meat goats, too. I do believe that there is more work involved in bottle feeding the kids...some on this forum disagree. We let the dam raise the spotted buckling for 3 weeks and he did fine with her. We pulled him at 3 weeks for the bottle feeding so that the buyer may continue milk after he joins the new herd...IF they want to continue. He was our first experiment with not hand raising a Nubian buckling (we did it with Kinders). Our reason for doing it was to see how the boy would do without all the time consuming personal attention and all the time consuming cleaning, etc., that goes with bottle feeding. Again, he did fine and we will do that again!! I will add that I personally would never not feed a kid milk for at least THREE months or 12 weeks and that I believe is backed up by scientific research. However, no question that kids milk fed for 8 weeks, weaned and sold is a very common situation that makes many people are very happy on both ends of the sale.

lovinglife · #12 05/16/14, 09:12 AM

Years ago it was common to wean early to get the healthiest rumen going. That makes them more thrifty with feed as adults. My babies are 8 weeks now and eat very well. I will probably continue to give milk, mostly because I have plenty and I know they are getting healthy rumens already. I only feed twice a day so they do need to graze the grass and hay feeder daily.

Beautiful Nubians by the way!

dozedotz · #13 05/16/14, 09:21 AM

Thanks! They take the place of my grandchildren that my selfish children moved to CA, WA and parts unknown!! lol. We have a very small herd and they are spoiled.
On the serious side, they eat plenty of hay, drink water and nibble on weeds (we live in the woods...no grass pasture). What they do not get is grain...not until they are weaned. If they stay here, that could be 6 or 7 months of age.

dozedotz · #14 05/17/14, 09:49 AM

Genetics has an awfully lot to do with the size of the goat...but FEEDING is important, too. I found this photo of Knox (the kids sire) this morning. It was taken last Sept. 2 when he and their dam and Indee were put together in an area for the winter breeding. The girls are close to 200 pounds and we did not get them from Jana (Old Paths...Prairie Nights) until they were about 6 months old. Knox we raised from an 8 week old kid and he now weighs at 2 1/2 years old about 300 pounds...can no longer get a tape measure! He was bottle fed for 6 months. Did not grain until he was over 6 months old. He comes from BIG animals, but the milk sure didn't hurt him...and the time we spent with him was well worth it. He is gentle as he is big. You specifically asked about "herd sires" and we think that the herd sire deserves every bit as much attention and milk as the does.

Clovers_Clan · #15 05/17/14, 11:38 AM

I think a lot really depends on your goals and resources. We dam raise and currently have two half siblings who are 16 weeks. The doeling who was a twin and smaller is still nursing. The wether (different dam) was a single and weaned at 9 weeks. Neither is being grained(only lactating does receive grain), both are on large plentiful pasture. Both are healthy but the doeling has a lot more finish to her. If we were raising the wether to put in the freezer, we would either have left him to nurse or started graining. But his job is to be companion to our breeding buck and we needed all the milk from his dam. Our current management works for our purposes. Here are photos of the two, red collar is the doeling. BTW, from our experience leaving doelings on mammas makes a big difference in yearling size and condition for first freshening, even when the weaned doelings are supplemented with grain. We are a homestead, we have plenty of forage and milk and prefer to maximize self-sufficiency by using as little processed feed as possible.

You have some beautiful babies!!!

dozedotz · #16 05/17/14, 06:01 PM

Thank you! So do you!! I guess the important thing that I would like to get across is that a herd sire is as important as the does. So many people really don't like the boys, often raise them alone, pay little attention to them, etc. etc. I think they are more than just a sperm bank and even if that is all they are to the breeder, they need to be as good a sperm bank as possible. Milk won't hurt them and if it is available and not hurting the family, why not?

Clovers_Clan · #17 05/17/14, 07:30 PM

Oh, I totally agree, they should be well taken care of. If you won't be breeding him extensively for another year, his caloric and nutritional needs will be very similar to a wether. So weaning might not have an impact on growth. If, however, you plan to breed him this year and/or house him near does, he may need extra reserves for rut. So bottle feeding him longer, may be of benefit. And of course, if you have the extra milk, couldn't hurt. Your question did bring to mind something I've wondered, and I was hoping someone would address. If you nurse/bottle feed bucklings or wethers longer AND feed grain will the combined sources of calcium be an issue with urinary calculi? Usually grain is begun or increased at weaning. Just wondering, what is the balance there?