CDT shots and disbudding question

[Aintlifegrand]

I will be disbudding my new 6 day old mini nubians this week ...well the little buck..the girl doesn't have any bumps yet...I am wondering if I give him his cdt shot before I do this?

[SJSFarm]

I was told to give CD&T at the same time.

A friend just went to a class and said the testing shows they don't get the proper protection if the second shot is not given within 6 or 8 weeks of the first.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Moboiku]

6 days is too early for CD-T as they do not yet have an immune system that is mature enough for it to help them. Wait until they are 6-8 weeks old to do the first CD-T and do the second 4 weeks later.

[Backfourty,MI.]

I always give their dam's their CD & T booster 3-4 weeks before kidding that way the immunity carries over to the kids.
Then when I tattoo & disbud the babies I don't give them anything.

If your unsure of the mothers Vaccine's then you can give the babies a tetanus shot to cover them for the disbudding.

Then the babies get their first CD & T Toxoid shot at about 5-6 weeks then the booster is 3 weeks(21 days later) don't miss the 2nd shot or the 1st one is useless.

[Backfourty,MI.]

SJSFarm the 2nd shot is given 21 days after the first.

[Alice In TX/MO]

I do not give CDT at disbudding.

[madness]

I know a lot of folks do give it but I think it doesn't matter as long as the dams passed on immunity (we do 4 weeks prior to kidding). Just like backforty said, do a tetanus shot if you are unsure.

[Aintlifegrand]

Ok great..she was given her cdt shot the beginning of April..about 22 days before delivery

[Doug Hodges]

Several never give CDT shots. Ever

[Moboiku]

This info is from the Small Ruminant Info Sheet found here:
http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles...cinations.html

"Lambs and kids will receive passive, temporary immunity to CDT when they consume colostrum. This immunity will start to wane after about six weeks. Thus, lambs and kids from vaccinated dams should receive their first CDT vaccination by the time they are 6-8 weeks of age, followed by a booster 3-4 weeks later."

It also matches what my large-animal vet told me. Because our ram and ewes run together all the time, we didn't know exact due dates of our lambs, so guessed - and guessed wrong. One ewe lambed just 3 days after we had administered the shot that we were hoping was "within the last month of pregnancy". So I asked my vet if I should vaccinate the lamb earlier because it wasn't getting the protection from the ewe's colostrum. She was the one who told me it would be a waste of time and vaccine because initially the lamb's immune system isn't mature enough to know what to do with it. She said even though the lamb had no maternal protection, I should wait until it was 6-8 weeks old. A PP stressed that the booster has to be 21 days after the first shot but both this article and my vet said "3-4 weeks". I put a reminder on my phone when the booster is due and that way I cannot forget.

Someone else said some people don't vaccinate at all. That is true. I recently purchased a 15 month old goat doe who had never been vaccinated. It is personal choice but before I decided to vaccinate, I read up on what the shot covers, and decided it is not worth the risk not to vaccinate. We only have a few sheep and goats - I can't afford to lose any of them because we didn't get them $1 worth of vaccine.

[MDKatie]

Originally Posted by Moboiku

I can't afford to lose any of them because we didn't get them $1 worth of vaccine.

I completely agree, and it's not even $1 worth of shots. I just bought a 25 dose vial for less than $9, so even if an animal needs a booster too, it's only $.72. VERY worth it!

[Doug Hodges]

Originally Posted by Moboiku

This info is from the Small Ruminant Info Sheet found here:
http://www.sheepandgoat.com/articles...cinations.html

" I can't afford to lose any of them because we didn't get them $1 worth of vaccine.

The ones not vaccinating don't do it because they believe the vaccine was causing death in their goats. A very trusted member on this site is one of them. She said she lost goats to death until she quit vaccinating and hasn't lost one in 5 years since she quit. So that $1 dollar shot may do the opposite of what you want it to do. Ive been hoping she will tell her story. Its not my place to do so.


EDIT: I need to add that a girl that bought a goat from me had it die suddenly a few days after giving her a CDT shot. I have both her sisters at home and they are doing great.

[Moboiku]

Originally Posted by Doug Hodges

The ones not vaccinating don't do it because they believe the vaccine was causing death in their goats. A very trusted member on this site is one of them. She said she lost goats to death until she quit vaccinating and hasn't lost one in 5 years since she quit. So that $1 dollar shot may do the opposite of what you want it to do. Ive been hoping she will tell her story. Its not my place to do so.


EDIT: I need to add that a girl that bought a goat from me had it die suddenly a few days after giving her a CDT shot. I have both her sisters at home and they are doing great.

Unless necropsy has confirmed that cause of death was a CDT shot, I would be reluctant to base my husbandry on the suspicions of another person, based on their experience.

It is not unheard of for animals to have a reaction to a vaccine - but it is rare enough that the risk/reward ratio is worth it for most. CDT is given around the country, if not the world, to cattle, sheep and goats in huge numbers. If it was the cause of death for a large number of them, farmers - especially those relying on the animals for their livelihood - would quit using it. If one person lost multiple goats, it would be worth a look at other factors that could have caused their death. I would be highly skeptical that one person was unlucky enough to have multiple animals that are all in that rare category of reacting badly - unless they are so inbred that they all have roughly the same genetics and one of those genes is a super-sensitivity to the vaccine.

Again with the girl who bought a goat from you. Unless she had a necropsy done to confirm it, how do you know that is what killed the goat? Her husbandry style may be so different from yours that another factor is more likely at play.

I recently hatched out a bunch of turkeys. I sold two poults to a woman and both died within days. The ones I kept are all still going strong. Was she unlucky enough to choose the two that appeared strong and healthy but were actually weak and sickly, or is it more likely that it was something about the way she was keeping them that caused their death?

[Doug Hodges]

The girl with the goat that died had a necropsy done. It was inconclusive. It could of been a reaction to the shot. She had the state lab do the test. The goat developed a high fever. Stopped eating, bloated and was dead the next morning.

Their are lots and lots of people that don't give the shot. The reasons I hear is it has caused death and it doesn't work.

I have the CDT shot on hand. I have given the goats shots. I am on my second bottle since last year. I've been very reluctant to give any more shots since this happened and what I've heard from others that have been doing this for years.

I'm on the fence. I've researched it extensively. Dad raised boers for over 25 years. He never gave a shot and rarely lost a goat. The only ones he lost were usually sick or weak from birth.

I hate the catch 22 stuff.

[MDKatie]

I know reactions are possible, but I've never seen one and I've given thousands of CD/T shots.

[Backfourty,MI.]

The reason I ALWAYS do CD & T shots is because years ago we lost my favorite goat because he was not vaccinated with CD & T, had a necropsy done by the vet because I was so heartbroken & had to know why he was fine the night before & dead the next day.

My vet at that time said it was Clostridial perifrigens & CD & T vaccine would have saved him. He also said it's a small price to pay for piece of mind. I've never had a goat since not be vaccinated here & never lost one because I vaccinated it.

Originally Posted by Doug Hodges

The ones not vaccinating don't do it because they believe the vaccine was causing death in their goats. A very trusted member on this site is one of them. She said she lost goats to death until she quit vaccinating and hasn't lost one in 5 years since she quit. So that $1 dollar shot may do the opposite of what you want it to do. Ive been hoping she will tell her story. Its not my place to do so.


EDIT: I need to add that a girl that bought a goat from me had it die suddenly a few days after giving her a CDT shot. I have both her sisters at home and they are doing great.

Not contributing to a potential debate, but my experience is the same as your friend Doug. Just sharing my experience and not trying to change anyone's mind on vaccines. I know most advocate vaccines, it's just not for me or my goats.

[Alice In TX/MO]

This is a good discussion. Glad it is staying friendly.

I've stopped giving CDT, too.

[Doug Hodges]

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

This is a good discussion. Glad it is staying friendly.

I've stopped giving CDT, too.

I heard you did. I'm still waiting on a couple more that I discussed it more in depth. Why did you stop?

[Doug Hodges]

Originally Posted by Davstep

Not contributing to a potential debate, but my experience is the same as your friend Doug. Just sharing my experience and not trying to change anyone's mind on vaccines. I know most advocate vaccines, it's just not for me or my goats.

What happened? Can you give details?