Baby advice needed. Not sure if it's urgent.....yet.

TeenyTinyFarm · #1 03/10/14, 07:40 PM

The complete story:

Picked up two Nigerians late last night; a doe 3 weeks old (Millie II) and a buckling 4 weeks old (Oreo). Both had been Dam raised.i mixed a gallon of whole milk plus 1 cup of whole buttermilk and fed it in a baby bottle. Millie fought awhile, but eventually sucked down her 3 oz. Oreo would not bring his tongue up to suckle. He would chew the nipple a bit and swallow here and there, he fought me all the way. I probably only got an ounce in him last night. I didn't worry, I figured he got a belly full before he left his dam. He was active and alert. He cried a lot, but I assumed that was for momma. This morning at feeding time, it went the same. So I tried another nipple I had on hand although I figured it was to large; those black rubber lamb nipples that go over soda bottles. No improvement. This afternoon I broke down and called the lady I bought him from and asked for her advice. She suggested the Pritchard nipples and condensed goat milk. Tried that, no improvement. I have had him now for almost 24 hours I I can't imagine I have gotten more than 3 to 4 ounces total in him with all of my trying. I have seen him urinate at least twice since he has been here. There were about 6-8 yellow brown berries in the crate today, but I am not sure if they are his or Millie's. his activity level seems to have decreased. He is grinding his teeth. His tail is down and he seems a big hunched. His tummy does not feel hard like he is constipated. I just checked his temp and it is 102.6. What should I be doing or trying?

mrstillery09 · #2 03/10/14, 07:50 PM

I feel for you on this. Last year one of my bottle babies refused the bottle. I tried all nipples (including for human babies) and eventually had luck with the black lamb nipples. Feeding time however was still a big chore! They really hate change, and seem to just not get it sometimes. It took a lot of patience and a lot of trial and error to finally get her going on her own. At least once she started she did really good. I'd assume if they just aren't used to bottles it will take time and persistence to get him wanting to take it. I would think maybe the grinding would be due to being hungry, but I'm no expert. I'm sure someone else will have better advice!

gunsmithgirl · #3 03/10/14, 07:53 PM

Were these goats on a bottle at least partially before? I have never had luck getting a baby to take a bottle if I didn't introduce it before 2 weeks old. Normally I start a bottle at 6 days old in the mornings, because I separate them from their dam at night and give a bottle in the A.M. then they get turned back with their dam the rest of the day. If they haven't had a bottle before this could be a lot harder.
Wishing you the best of luck.

jcatblum · #4 03/10/14, 07:58 PM

Did you put honey on the bottle nipple? Sometimes it can encourage them to take the nipple

GoldenWood Farm · #5 03/10/14, 08:01 PM

It will take time getting him used to a bottle but it can be done. If he was my kid I would get a teaspoon of baking soda down him. Just in case he has a upset stomach and as far as milk I would just be giving him some whole cows milk from the store and not be adding anything to it. At 4 weeks of age he is probably nibbling on some other things as well.

How often are you feeding him? I feed my 4wk old kids just twice a day. I would keep trying but it is okay for him to get a bit hungry in my opinion. I would get some baking soda down him though. I would mix it with a little bit bit of water and use a syringe in the side of his mouth. I would try that that and then a few hours later try the bottle again. Sometimes changing up the milk causes an upset tummy.

Justine

Awnry Abe · #6 03/10/14, 09:43 PM

The behavior seems expected for a kid transitioning from doe to bottle on top of a move. The longer on the doe, the more difficult the transition. When we have kids that get the hunchies from things like meds or other stressful events, we mix yogurt in with the milk to help fire up the digestive system so the appetite will kick in. A pinch of baking soda placed in their mouth several minutes before feeding helps, too. I wonder if buttermilk has the same affect as yogurt?

I've had kids that I was certain would not ever thrive and begin to suck on a bottle. It seemed like a wait and watch game to see when they would pass. But...invariably they kick in and start sucking.

I would suggest the "tickling their hiny above the tail" trick to stimulate the sucking reflex, but I think they are too old for that.

Keep us updated. I hope the little bugger figures it out!

TeenyTinyFarm · #7 03/10/14, 11:05 PM

I tried the honey. He suckled for a few moments and then stopped. I have never seen anything like this. I can get the nipple in his mouth and he just sits there like lifeless about it. Doesn't really fight and twist his head away like I have been used to with other kids, but will just sit there with the nipple in his mouth not sucking on it. I did get about 2 oz on him this evening at the 10:00 feeding. I am recalling hoping I can get better from him in the morning. Will continue trying the honey.

Wendy · #8 03/10/14, 11:44 PM

Don't want to be a bearer of bad news, but I had a kid that died. He absolutely refused a bottle no matter what I tried. If people want to bottle feed, they need to start them within a week of being born. The best thing is never letting them eat off the dam if you plan to sell as bottle babies. Moving them from mom, changing nipples, plus the change in the taste of the milk is going to be hard. He does not see you as his mom. You don't smell like her, the milk you are offering doesn't taste like hers & the nipples aren't soft like his dam's. It actually makes me kind of mad that the people even sold them without having them trained on the bottle for you. I NEVER let a kid go here unless they are eating well from a bottle.

mrstillery09 · #9 03/11/14, 02:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wendy

Don't want to be a bearer of bad news, but I had a kid that died. He absolutely refused a bottle no matter what I tried. If people want to bottle feed, they need to start them within a week of being born. The best thing is never letting them eat off the dam if you plan to sell as bottle babies. Moving them from mom, changing nipples, plus the change in the taste of the milk is going to be hard. He does not see you as his mom. You don't smell like her, the milk you are offering doesn't taste like hers & the nipples aren't soft like his dam's. It actually makes me kind of mad that the people even sold them without having them trained on the bottle for you. I NEVER let a kid go here unless they are eating well from a bottle.

I really like this response because it's so easy to think, "Why won't they just eat?!?!" and get frustrated. But knowing how they are probably missing their moms and wondering why everything is different really makes sense. I wonder then, if you spent some extra time loving on them it may help them associate you as mom. Just sit with them, pet on them, maybe leave something that smells like you where they sleep. I am probably crazy, but I always baa and maa at my baby goats and we have little conversations. I really hope something works for you!

MDKatie · #10 03/11/14, 06:36 AM

I have had luck getting older kids switched to a bottle, but it wasn't super easy. If you're going to use whole milk, then use straight whole milk...don't add buttermilk or anything else to it. Make sure it's warm but not too warm, and make sure he's hungry. Then you almost have to put him in a headlock so he can't really move, and put the nipple into his mouth. You may have to use your hand to press his mouth closed, almost like you're making him nurse. Eventually they get it, but it is frustrating.

And yeah, shame on that seller for doing that to you. Not only is the switch from goat milk to cow milk hard on the kid, but also weaning (from their dam) AND switching to a bottle.

TeenyTinyFarm · #11 03/11/14, 10:05 AM

I put some hay in with him just to see what would happen and he ate it! Do I need to run get some ProBios??

TeenyTinyFarm · #12 03/11/14, 04:25 PM

Still need advice.....

Gave him probios...he is chewing cud. So I guess that is good. He has water, which I have seen him drink and a little grain I mashed up. Not sure he has nibbled at that though. I have taken them both out for walks in the woods. He has eaten some brush here and there. He is active, though not as active as the doe, she bounces everywhere. He will run from point A to B if he wants to. IF I am lucky, I can get an ounce or two in him at a time. He sure looks thin. What else should I be doing.

Oh and the breeder is not returning my calls now. Gosh, I thought I had found someone who was good this time.

TeenyTinyFarm · #13 03/11/14, 04:27 PM

Oh and poop looks good and he is peeing regularly

GoldenWood Farm · #14 03/11/14, 04:33 PM

These are Nigerian Dwarfs right? They are STUBBORN when it comes to the bottle and I mean STUBBORN. I have gotten a month old Nigerian Dwarf on a bottle but it is hard. I would keep offering him the bottle and try moving it in and out of his mouth a little bit. I have found when they "shut down" that moving the nipple around can get them moving again.

If he is nibbling on things that is a good sign but he does still need milk. Keep working with him and don't give up with the bottle. I have literally sat for 10 minutes one time with the nipple in the mouth before a kid started drinking. It is a big change and it will take him time to adjust.

Oh I wanted to add right now he isn't used to drinking a lot at a time. Probably why he is only drinking 1-2oz at a feeding, dam raised babies are used to drinking a little bit at a time. So for him that is something he is used to doing and over time his belly will stretch to drink more.

Justine

Goatsandsheep · #15 03/11/14, 08:04 PM

If he'll drink water from a bucket try seeing if he will drink milk from one.

Wendy · #16 03/12/14, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Oh and the breeder is not returning my calls now. Gosh, I thought I had found someone who was good this time.

Gee, that doesn't surprise me. Yes, you could see if he would drink milk from a bucket. I know several people that teach their calves to drink from a bucket instead of a bottle.

TeenyTinyFarm · #17 03/13/14, 08:35 PM

Posting an update....he is still not sucking from a bottle. I can manage to get a small amount in his tummy, sometimes a few swallows, sometimes a half ounce. It's pathetic. He wouldn't drink from a bowl either. He is eating hay and I have water and goat pellets out for him. I gave him probios and a squirt of Nutri Drench. He is chewing cud, peeing and pooping well. He is skinny as a rail. I can feel every bone on his body and that is not an exaggeration. I can only take him outside to play for brief periods and then I have to zip him in my coat to warm him back up. He is active. Not bouncy and leaping everywhere, but he hops up and down from the chairs and runs sometimes. Obviously, I am not giving up on the milk; I am even adding a splash of cream for the extra fat and calories, but what else can I offer him to eat so he won't starve. I have some cracked corn....would that be ok? Lot's of calories right? Anything more I should do?

And honestly, what do you think his chances are. My 8 year old was crying today watching me warm him up and I didn't have an answer for him.

myheaven · #18 03/13/14, 08:53 PM

Tube feed him.

wintrrwolf · #19 03/13/14, 09:04 PM

Fiasco farms says whole cows milk with a little karo syrup and warm it(best yet if you have it goats milk). Some kids catch on quick, didn't take Penny long to figure it out, I switched her to a bottle at 4 weeks old when I got Vanilla, but then again her first day she got bottle fed Colostrum cause momma wouldn't let her nurse got her back on momma because of upcoming trip and no one to milk for me. At that time she would only accept the soft newborn human baby nipple and nothing else. Now they are both on the black lamb nipple with no problem..you do have to enlarge the holes though they don't like having to work REALLY hard to get a little bit a milk this is also important.
I would recommend tubing him but if you have never done that it's not something you should do. Perhaps a vet could show you ??

P.S Please don't add heavy cream, condensed or powder to the whole milk its not good for them ...if you feel you must add something a tablespoon of plain yogurt is actually better.

GoldenWood Farm · #20 03/13/14, 09:08 PM

I agree I would tube feed him. If you don't know how find someone who can show you. This kid need milk badly

. Have you tried sitting with him with the nipple in his mouth for a while? It is worth a shot? I had some kids who like I said before I had to sit for 10 minutes with the nipple in their mouth.

Praying for you and this little guy! I wish you lived closer I would come help you with him. I have gotten many a stubborn kid on the bottle.

Justine