Feeding advice needed (was reading milk fever threads)

Doug Hodges · #1 03/06/14, 06:14 AM

Ok. Advice needed here. I was feeding free choice alfalfa and Right now onyx free choice. Everyone gets that. Once they kid, they get Noble Goat Dairy Parlor 16 on the stand.

I ran out of straight alfalfa and am feeding alfalfa/orchard grass mix.

My local feed store ran out of the noble goat and I had to go to Hirshs and get the ADM dairy feed they carry.

A couple of my girls seem to be off their feed and won't eat all their pellets on the stand. One is producing less milk also. One refused to eat at all two days ago.

I gave 10cc of probios to them. They both ate more yesterday and I think I got more milk.

I'm the person that gives CMPK and worms them on kidding day, copper Bolus and BoSe a month before. (Or close to that)

I sure don't want ketosis or anything like that with my girls. I also don't want to wait until I have a problem.

My question. Is all the switching around causing this?(probably a stupid question) I think it probably is but want to hear it from others. Should I give anything at this time to stop anything that could be happening or simply just watch closely? I have been a little worried but the " being off their feed" statement got my attention.

Thanks

Tango · #2 03/06/14, 06:35 AM

not a stupid question! careful monitoring can show a lot of little changes here and there from normal production. so good job

sudden change of diet can upset rumination- also even batch changes of the same grain or different cutting of hay can too.... the upset can also cause a decrease in milk production for a day or two. in your case the change was significant so seems normal.... but just in case do you offer baking soda? do you use the cmt before each milking? just in case of mastitis starting?

paintpony · #3 03/06/14, 06:36 AM

Offer them baking soda.

Doug Hodges · #4 03/06/14, 06:46 AM

They get baking soda free choice also.

What is CMT?

Alice In TX/MO · #5 03/06/14, 06:48 AM

Yes. ANY abrupt change in feed upsets goats mentally and physically.

paintpony · #6 03/06/14, 06:52 AM

Any runny poo? I'd probably cut back on the grain ration for a few days, and then slowly try increasing it back up to where you were feeding.

Doug Hodges · #7 03/06/14, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paintpony

Any runny poo? I'd probably cut back on the grain ration for a few days, and then slowly try increasing it back up to where you were feeding.

No runny poo. They only get pellets on the stand.

I had a different one not eat today. Might be something going around. Gave more probios. The other two seemed normal again.

where I want to · #8 03/06/14, 08:58 AM

I don't milk so don't know if this is totally wrong or not. But if I'm forced to make a sudden change in feed, I cut back on what I am feeding for a short time then gradually increase it.
Basically a sudden feed change can cause a change in gut bacteria as bacteria populations adjust to new food. So I would rather they were a little hungry or simply disappointed while their gut changes to meet the change. I'm not talking a long time- within a week it's back to normal.

But always as much grass hay as they normally have- just things like alfalfa pellets or grain seem to be the problem.

paintpony · #9 03/06/14, 09:06 AM

Doug,

You're dairy ration pellets have grain in them. The quick switch is probably what has brought this on. I'd still cut back on the pellets and then slowly bring them back up to what you had been giving them. The gut needs time to adjust.

dozedotz · #10 03/06/14, 10:07 AM

When we are forced to make a change in feed due to not having on hand what we normally feed - our goats just knock the crap out of the feed bucket and refuse to eat! I'd say you have a very polite group of girls, Doug!
I agree with cutting back the amount and building back up with whatever you intend to feed...I think you did the smart thing by giving the ProBios, too!

Tango · #11 03/06/14, 10:30 AM

CMT = california mastitis test. a goat's scc is higher than a cow and the cmt is made for cows but they are very useful to detect changes in scc from week to week or day to day, milking to milking.... instead of numbers you work with consistency and it is easy to get the knack for once you get used to what is "normal" for your does. you can detect changes early, early subclinical and treat with herbal remedies without having to go through antibiotics or milk withdrawal. just a thought....

for me since i sold herd shares i was always paranoid about any possibility of infection. the cmt helped me to rule out mastitis immediately if one of the girls was "off". so I am an advocate for the cmt.

Backfourty,MI. · #12 03/06/14, 04:07 PM

I think probably just the change in feed also. I feed & do basically like you Doug & (Knock on wood) have never had milk fever or anything similar here.
I do feed the ADM alliance dairy goat pellet to my girls year around, they Love it. They get only 1/4 cup when dry & then I up it after they kid. They also get as much alfalfa pellets on the stand daily & alfalfa/grass hay 24/7.
Worm day of kidding & again 10-14 days later.
Free choice mineral/baking soda too.

I do mix the ADM dairy pellet equally with oats year around too.

Frosted Mini's · #13 03/06/14, 07:48 PM

Yep, probably the sudden feed change. You could offer the "off" ones some milk of magnesia, see if that helps. If you have to change feed again, be sure to get to the store BEFORE you are out of their old stuff, so that you can change them over a little more slowly next time.

Doug Hodges · #14 03/06/14, 08:09 PM

The feed store had ordered the feed for me. I pick up 300 to 500 lbs at a time. When I got there and loaded it I read the label and it was grower. I already have noble goat grower 16. The only difference in bags is the tag. If the tag is missing, you can't tell the bags apart. Anyway, they screwed up and when they called it was going to be 2 weeks. So I went and bought 300 lbs of the ADM feed. I have 50 lbs left. The feed store has ordered me 1600 lbs and promised to not run out again. Guess I'll be switching back tomorrow. Poor girls.

copperpennykids · #15 03/07/14, 03:48 PM

First of all, when a doe goes "off feed" or is just not "quite right" it is always advisable to give them a baking soda drench, just in case you are at the beginning of acidosis. If you catch it early, it can be a hiccup. If you don't, it can turn into a life-threatening situation.

You must give the baking soda to them, not wait for them to eat out of their free choice feeder. And it will not harm them, so better to be proactive this way.

The alfalfa/grass hay is not hurting them (in this case, the more benign hay is possibly help mitigate the acidosis. However, they will give less milk due to lowered protein and calcium (in the alfalfa).

Always a good idea to take temperatures. May tell you something or help you rule things out - it is just a good diagnostic tool.

(This a general suggestion, probably not a big factor in this case, but always a good idea, even if it just gives you a base line - such as the doe had a temp of 101.8 - perfectly acceptable temp - and then the next time you take it, it has climbed to 104.5, well, pretty safe to assume you are dealing with some time of infection. If it has dropped below 100 degrees you had better panic and prepare for entero or milk fever and get super proactive.)

PS Switch back to the original grain SLOWLY.