Tree question

[Phil V.]

I was reading the new Dairy Goat Journal and there is an article about poisonous trees and plants to goats. It has locust trees and elderberry bush listed as harmful. When I raised pygmies I had both around and the goats didn't act like they were bothered by them. My question is how harmful are they to goats. The reason that I ask is if I had had to remove them I'd have enough firewood for 5 years just in the locust trees alone. I have 2 big weeping willows that are going to be removed that will yield about 12 truckloads between the 2 trees.

[Doug Hodges]

Are the weeping willows in the way? I think those are nice trees.

I'm weird about trees. I commercially logged for several years. I cut forests down. I have an appreciation of special trees. Weeping willows that big have to be very old. My FIL is wanting to cut down a beautiful 150 year old white oak to build a house. I've been trying to talk him into putting the house in a different place.

Anyway, that's the reason about my question on the weeping willows.

[Alice In TX/MO]

http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/plants/goatlist.html

That document breaks the plants down to why they could cause problems, giving a hint as to severity of the issue.

[Phil V.]

Thanks for the link Alice. The 2 willows are starting to die and losing some of the bigger branches. I have 2 other weeping willow trees and 1 corkscrew willow left.

[dozedotz]

Alice, if I am understanding the chart correctly, oak is a killer. I have certainly heard and read that many, many times over the years...because we live in a predominantly oak forest in the Ozarks...no grass pasture at all...we almost decided not to buy goats at all. Maybe 5 years just isn't enough time for the oaks to kill the goats? They eat the leaves both fresh and fallen year round, they eat the acorns with great resolve to get them all! How do the folks who print these lists decide what is poisonous to goats is what I want to know. I would assume they test and have first hand experience? We have white, red, black and other lesser known oaks on this property...all available to the goats...obviously they eat other plants, too, and hay, grain, peanuts, animal crackers, etc. BUT there is no doubt that oak dominates our landscape. This is troubling to me and confusing...

[Ford Zoo]

My goats eat locust and elderberry, along with oak. Perhaps there is a difference with species in varying parts of the country or the fact that they don't get a lot at this point?

[punchiepal]

Not weeping willow but we have willows and feed them to the goats in the summer as well and mulberry trees. They love them and actually seek them out when they are not feeling well. Willows have pain relief properties.

[dozedotz]

I went back and re-read the article to try and get a better understanding. A couple of things stand out: 1) they mention several times that the tests were done with artificially created tannin...not oak...and that when using "real" leaves and acorns the results often turned out differently. Huh? Why? 2) looking at my "fluffy" herd and oversized kids I do not see any signs that the food is being wasted or not utilized!!! No one appears to be unable to "digest their food due to the tannin." Again, these reports come out, people read "some of it" and panic. We did. We are so used to whatever the "expert" says as being the last word. Well, sometimes the "expert" is seeing what he/she is trained to see: the worst possible outcome. Anyway, in my non-expert opinion goats are like deer in many ways...they eat the bark (tannin) of trees and prefer to eat leaves and stems to grass...they are browsers, not grazers by nature. Deer fatten up in the winter on oak acorns...so do our goats. At this time we see no evidence that the oak leaves (new or dry) are causing our goats to be able to digest and utilize their food and no evidence that any of them are wasting away, under weight or failing (the kids) as the information would lead you to believe is possible. We plan to continue as is.

[Phil V.]

Ford Zoo are the locust trees that you have black locust or honey? I have honey locust trees that's why I asked about them. I have mulberry trees and the pygmies that I had used to eat them as they fell.

[Ford Zoo]

Phil, ours are the black locust. But the goats don't get a lot of them, just now and then when they can reach them, or when we are trimming. They come up from widespread shallow roots so if we cut one down, 20 more pop up along the root system.

[Phil V.]

I know what you mean about popping all over. Right now I have 30+ of them in all shapes and sizes. It's the same here when I had pygmies it was I trimmed trees and during the fall when leaves came off when they could get at them.

[Alice In TX/MO]

My goats are heavy consumers of oak leaves. No problem.

[Phil V.]

Have a few walnut trees around. One I plan on having cut for lumber that's in one pen that I'm making. Not sure how to get around it since it sits on the property line.