Are goats...

[Ziptie]

Not to get beat up over this. But looking through all these posts it seems to me that goats don't really seem to be that hardy of creatures? Am I wrong?

I look through the posts and see all these goats needing like five different shots for this that and the other. Getting this special mineral, vit treatment,kids tangled inside, etc.

Not that our diary cow is all that and a bag of chips. Just need to worm her once a year with a pour on the back drench after a couple years and it probably would not hurt to trim her hoofs. That's about it.

Not asking this question to cause trouble..just trying to figure out how to keep us in milk all year long. I would would like to have one cow and two dairy goats. But if I am always having to give them a shot of this or make up a mixture of that it sound like it would be easier to get another cow.

[Ford Zoo]

You're only getting the worse scenarios because people come here to seek advice when their goat has a problem. Overall, a well cared for goat will give you years of love with little problem, if any at all. While I find that goats do best with preventative care, I think it is because we have taken them out of their natural browse habitat and expected them to survive care free off a diet not quite what nature intended, albeit as close as we can get.

Many of us can share stories of years without sick goats, poor kiddings, or detrimental accidents. The good definitely outweighs the bad. Just make sure you read a lot and understand the needs of a goat before getting them. They do require a bit different management than a cow, mostly because cows are grazers and goats are browsers, thus having different nutritional needs.

[Wendy]

I have milked for 10 years & this is the first year I ever had a goat with mastitis. Then of course it hit all of them. Normally, goats are very hardy if they aren't over crowded in their pasture/pen. I worm mine about twice a year & that's usually it for me.

[where I want to]

Goats have few things that will really get them and it comes as a surprise to newbies- at least it did to me. But once those few things are learned they are really not that much trouble.
There are a couple of things that make them seem worse. One is that there are so many of them per person, unlike cows which may be one to a family unless they run a dairy. And they have high multiple births so there is more chance to run into a problem with kids.
I would love to have a goat who restricts herself to one or two kids each birth but unfortunately four is not uncommon, five happens and I shudder to think of the nexr step.

[mrstillery09]

I felt the exact same way before I got my goats last year. I was having serious second thoughts. Especially being as I'm a newbie and had never been around goats. Seeing everyone talk about them here, made me think they were very fragile and prove to sickness. My girls have gone against all that. They have been hardy, parasite resistant, and one survived listeriosis. They haven't been sick since they were bottle babies, and have just been great. Ornery, escape artists...but healthy and totally awesome otherwise!!!!!

[Tango]

I've had both and prefer a Jersey to a dairy doe but my space is limited in my new place. If I had a 5 acre pasture instead of 5 acre woods, I would have gotten a Jersey or a Guernsey but not because goats are more sensitive. I treated mine same as the cows except they had enough woods to browse and once I got over my learning curve I didn't have many health problems with the goats. I was concerned too the other week when it seemed like a lot of posts were bordering on emergency but Ford Zoo is right. This forum is a good place to get help.

Problems peculiar to goats is that it is harder to find knowledgeable vets and so a person shoulders more responsibility in the medical care. It is our responsibility to learn as much as possible and to rely on each other becuase frankly many vets are not schooled in goat med. I used to load up my cows and haul to a great vet an hour away when I was stumped. I couldn't do that with my goats. I think you can have arrive at the right # of goats per your acreage and you attempt to provide browse instead of pasture, unless an accident happens, you should be okay. I had goats first and a lot of what I learned about freshening and milking transferred to my cows and a lot of what I learned with my cows I also practiced with my goats. They are not the same but both being dairy animals there is a lot of similarity, so you won't be starting from scratch.

[PricklyThistle]

Might depend on what you're comparing it to and breeds seem to differ in hardiness. After raising primitive breed sheep, to me, dairy goats seem MUCH harder. They do take less feed and room than a cow though, and that makes them a better dairy choice for many people.

[Ziptie]

See that is the thing. We have only about 5 acres of pasture. No woodlands. That is why I really don't want to get another cow. We don't need that much milk and do not really have the space.

As for what breed of goat we are looking at. Their is not many dairy goats around here. I did find a place that has a large herd of diary goats. They sell milk to a place in Wisconson for cheese. I like that breed aggressively for animals that don't thrive or have any trouble birthing(Kinko crossed with maybe Nubian??). But the herd has what is that disease...the one where they get abscesses on their body anywhere.

So no woodlands=hard time keeping goats healthy?

[Alice In TX/MO]

Caseous Lymphadenitis. CL. Yeah, you don't want that.

[dozedotz]

We were city people all our lives and were used to caring for dogs, cats and the occasional bird or rabbit...goats were a whole different world for us! We just assumed that you opened a bag of "goat chow" and provided clean water. Many of our goat buyers are just like we were...it takes some getting used to...Those of you who know cows and horses and other farm critters have a definite advantage. Now, several years later, we are still amazed at what WE have to know to protect our goats...things that the veterinarian does not know...we had come to rely on the vet for all our other pets' needs.
However, that is no doubt true for other farm animals, too. No one can afford vet services for all the things that can happen to farm stock. We still have not faced some of the BIG problems that are discussed here on HT. I shudder to think how we will deal with goat polio (will we recognize what is happening) or a complicated birth with 3 kids all tangled up! We are so grateful to HT for giving us help along the way. Still, both of wish that Emily would come and live with us!!!

[Alice In TX/MO]

Another issue that's unique to goats is that they will die from worm overload, and NONE of the treatments that WORK are labeled for goats. It creates a terrible hardship for new goat owners.

Then, there's the issue of find a vet that even SAW a goat in college, much less had a semester of instruction about goats.

It's like there's a conspiracy.

[Tango]

Originally Posted by Ziptie

See that is the thing. We have only about 5 acres of pasture. No woodlands. That is why I really don't want to get another cow. We don't need that much milk and do not really have the space.

As for what breed of goat we are looking at. Their is not many dairy goats around here. I did find a place that has a large herd of diary goats. They sell milk to a place in Wisconson for cheese. I like that breed aggressively for animals that don't thrive or have any trouble birthing(Kinko crossed with maybe Nubian??). But the herd has what is that disease...the one where they get abscesses on their body anywhere.

So no woodlands=hard time keeping goats healthy?

No, no woodlands doesn't = sick goats but goats seem to pick up worm loads by grazing. They are not grazers like cows (well cows seem to like browsing too) There are some tolerance issues to dewormers with goats. Cows can be dewormed easier (pour on as opposed to drenching). It may be my familiarity with cows talking and someone just as familiar with goats may be more helpful. In a few years when my land is completely fenced and I can let a Jersey roam 9 acres of pasture and woods, I will probably bring a Jersey home and retire my goats because of personal preference only. A lot has to do with personal preference not just space though a cow needs considerably more good pasture area. If you don't need all the milk, goats would certainly be an easier option, imo.

[where I want to]

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

Another issue that's unique to goats is that they will die from worm overload, and NONE of the treatments that WORK are labeled for goats. It creates a terrible hardship for new goat owners.

Then, there's the issue of find a vet that even SAW a goat in college, much less had a semester of instruction about goats.

It's like there's a conspiracy.

It wasn't as bad about not having good advice as having an abundance of bad. It took me a long time to work up enough nerve to copper bolus my goats because my vet said it would kill them like sheep.

[TeenyTinyFarm]

I don't know that much about cows (we only raised 1 steer every couple years to fill the freezer). Is 5 acres absolutely not enough for two? If it were me, I would be inclined to skip the goats and here is why:
By adding goats you will now have to purchase another type of feed and wormer and possibly hay (depending on what your cow is eating).
You may have to re-examine your fencing.
You will now have to find a healthy buck to take your does to to keep them in milk.
Goats are more inclined to get a heavy worm load when they graze pasture. They are more suited to forage.....it is their natural diet. It is not to say that they can't do well on pasture, just know that you may experience problems with worms.
You are already set up for cows, no additional work or expense other than buying more of what you buy already.

If 5 acres is too small for 2 cows, then maybe sell the 1 cow in favor of 2 or three dairy does and do rotational pasturing to reduce the likelihood of worm problems....

Just some thoughts.....

[PricklyThistle]

You could always opt for small breed cattle like Dexter or Highland.

[Frosted Mini's]

I see ads all the time for "nurse cows", so I assume they are fairly easy to get to accept other cow's calves nursing on them? (unlike goats...just too smart for that, unless they'd just kidded ). Perhaps getting a 2nd cow that is good at being a mommy would be a good option. Then, you could just not put any calves on her when the other cow is ready to be dried off, and milk the nurse cow until the other comes fresh again. Just an idea. Is your pasture irrigated? 5 acres seems like to me would be enough space, but I don't have cattle, except the occasional steer, and my pasture is divided into sections for rotating.

[Goatsandsheep]

Then, there's the issue of find a vet that even SAW a goat in college, much less had a semester of instruction about goats.

One good think about California is a lot of our Vets when to U.C. Davis. U.C. Davis has a great goat barn, they even do a goat days event yearly.

[Farmer Jayne]

I feel that most of these replies have hit the nail on the head. The main thing I would like to add is that I think that we tend to micro-manage our goat herds. I have both cows and goats. Cows do need vaccinations and minerals (they need copper and selenium just like goats). They are susceptible to coccidiosis and Johanne's Disease. And while cows don't usually have the problem of multiple babies getting tangled, they do have their share of turned-around babies. But I don't keep my cows up next to the house like I do my goats. While most of my cows are friendly enough - I have two milk cows that are quietly gestating out on pasture- they are not as sweet as my goats. My goats want to be with me and have their heads and backs scratched. My cows just check to see if I have a treat and go on their way.

I know that not everyone keeps their goats as pets, but I think a lot of us do. Even if you just keep them for milk, milking is a rather intimate act that requires the good will and cooperation of the goat. Milk cows? Once they figure out what you are doing, they just stand there bovinely, eating their grain. My Jersey is especially detached from the milking. She's sweet, but just not as loving or responsive as goats are.

And thinking back, I've actually had more issues with sick cows and lost more calves at birth than I have with goats. One calf was stillborn, the vet didn't know why. One calf was a month early, again, no idea why. And one calf was heartbreakingly huge, even though by all accounts, it should not have been. I've lost one kid, it looked premature even though her brother was healthy and fully developed. The rest of my kiddings would probably have gone just fine without me there. And I've had a lot more kiddings than calvings. But being there for the kiddings is a big part of the fun of having goats.

One more thing. Goat people are a lot more fun than cow people. At least on these forums. While most of the people at the cow forum are friendly and helpful, they don't share pictures as much, and don't seem to get as much joy from their animals as the people here on this forum. It's just a really different attitude. Even the people that post in both forums sound different. I probably do, too.

[Tango]

LOL FJ, I have an opposite experience with my cows. My guernsey loved attention and baked treats. She loved to be brushed. My first Jersey was more like a dog They knew their names, came to the house when it was milking time and generally let me do whatever to them, including lead them, haul them, etc. without any cattle equipment, no stanchions, no stalls no chutes. I think, like everything, preferences and experiences just vary naturally.

[mygoat]

Advice forums get flooded with... well... people with problems looking for advice! Around this time of year you see lots of kidding problem posts, but kidding problems are not the norm.

A lot of herds that have learned how to properly manage small ruminants will rarely have problems that they cannot deal with fast and effectively. You can manage to prevent MOST problems. The problem is learning aspects of care that allow you to maintain them in good care - but if you lapse in management through ignorance or negligence, then yes, you will have problems. Thankfully, most is minor and you can learn as you go along so long as you are the kind of person who is always willing and looking to learn.

One of my favorite examples is kidding season. I once talked to someone who was mad that he lost most of his kids born during his kidding season - stoopid worthless goats was his conclusion. However, He decided kidding them out in Jan/Feb was a good idea when he refused to do night checks or assist does having problems/make sure kids are nursing/do kid checks on the kids that had arrived to make sure they were thriving/nursing, weren't missing or stuck somewhere, etc. Most of the kids froze, obviously. Had he pasture kidded them out in May/June instead, he'd probably have been much better off. Of course, assisting a kidding is something I always advocate - as well as CULLING those who need it habitually. But, if you assist a kidding that means you can always cull the doe and her kids at the auction and MAKE money on the cull instead of loosing money on the doe and kids dying in labor... Smart culling, smart management should keep most of the problems rare.