Anyone Not Disbud?

[Tango]

After disbudding my dairy goats when I had them before and then raising Boer goats, I've decided not to disbud my Lamancha x. I'm up for 4 doelings this spring, two pairs from two family farms that dont disbud or vaccinate (at least one is Amish and the other may be Mennonite or one of the Christian groups that have gone back to the land to raise their families as an act of faith). They have closed herds and run dairies so they breed for milk production and conformation. They both cross Lamanchas with Nubians one pair of doelings will have a little Alpine. Speaking with the women, I get an upliftng sense of their work. They need strong producers with good conformation. I have spoken with women in Mennonite dairies before about cows when I kept cows - the cows from their places are very well behaved milkers - and have always been impressed with their knowledge and their closeness to their herds. They have a lot of wisdom that has come down from their communities. I'm not idealizing here - this is my experience. I'm sure not everyone is this way.

I will of course be vaccinating and testing because I don't know what was on my land before and my herd will not be closed for a long while. I'll probably buy again from the closer farm when I add a buckling or another couple of doelings next year. But having raised Boer goats, I no longer have any reasons to disbud. It is - for me - an unnecessary procedure. I had no problems with my Boer goats (other than the herd massacre wrought by my own dogs ). I learned to work with them. Am I in a minority here? Does anyone else not disbud?

[jcatblum]

I don't disbud. I have one doe whose horns curve back forward slightly, she is my only one that I watch closely. She can get you without effort, honestly I don't think she knows she hooks you half the time.

[Awnry Abe]

I disbud the pure and X dairy goats. The boers I do not disbud. I do that because I believe it is the norm. If not, I'd still disbud the dairy does but let everything else run around with horns.

[Tango]

Yeah, definitely it is the norm, seems like it anyway. And there is a lot to be said for disbudding so I'm not knocking it in anyway. Just think I will pass on that part of goat keeping this time around.

[AuntKitty]

I've gone both ways with my Nubians. I would definitely be all disbudded or all horned though. I especially wouldn't have a horned buck I was going to keep past the yearling stage. If I recall correctly you are alone on the farm like I am and the bucks get too much to handle by yourself.

[Tango]

Originally Posted by AuntKitty

I've gone both ways with my Nubians. I would definitely be all disbudded or all horned though. I especially wouldn't have a horned buck I was going to keep past the yearling stage. If I recall correctly you are alone on the farm like I am and the bucks get too much to handle by yourself.

Very good points. Thanks Being alone was the thing that started me to think about not disbudding at all. It is hard to do it by myself and the kidding box with towels et. al. still allows for squirming. If I were more of a pro I'd not given it much thought. But I'm not a pro and it is still not just physically but also psychologically difficult for me to do, even knowing what I know and having disbudded previously.

I hadn't considered about the buck, thanks. The little I have considered -I'm not getting one til late fall when the does will be breeding age- was to get a very nice registered Lamancha buck that I could sell after the season. These are preliminary thoughts only, dunno if it would be feasible or if I would get attached . I could buy a nice young reg. buck each year if I had connections. Bucks in rut are really difficult to deal with not just their physical strength but everything else to....

[GraceAlice]

I leave the horns on every goat I've owned. Horned goats also live with my disbudded goats (who were disbudded before we got them) and they get along perfectly. No one has ever gotten stuck or injured, and the horns actually make the mommas want to wean them earlier... because they don't want the horns poking at their udders when the babies nudge them.

i think horns are pretty, and there are lots of advantages to them.

[Farmer Jayne]

It's really a matter of preference and what you are comfortable with. I like the goats I keep to be disbudded. I've had experience with a horned goat really using her horns as weapons to terrorize the hornless ones. Not all goats will do this. If I'm going to sell them, I disbud the registered ones (Nubians) and leave the horns on the others. A lot of people won't pay a good price for a registered Nubian with horns.

[GoldenWood Farm]

I don't disbud.....my friend does it for me . I prefer all the goats on my farm disbudded because for me that is easier to work with. That and all my feeders wouldn't cater to a horned goat anyways. But if someone else wants to keep horns on their goat that is totally fine with me .

I just prefer hornless and that works in my herd .

Justine

[bluefish]

I don't disbudd, love those horns! I also run a mixed herd since when I buy a goat, it's pretty much always disbudded. However, I do disbud doelings on request and do it by myself. I roll up a towel to go underneath the baby's neck and another one to go over the neck. Then I put myself and the baby on the stanchion since mine is very large, a floor would work as well. Then I 'sit' on the baby with the body between my legs and the head sticking out front. I am on my knees. One towel goes under the neck, and the other goes over the neck and under my knees. This holds the head down pretty tight. I have never had any trouble with holding kidlings this way.

Did that make any sense?

[preparing]

Mine have horns. Only problem I've had is head stuck in fence until they are too big to stick.

Just have to use caution around horns .

[Tango]

Originally Posted by thermopkt

Did that make any sense?

Yes, thanks

[Tango]

Originally Posted by preparing

Mine have horns. Only problem I've had is head stuck in fence until they are too big to stick.

Just have to use caution around horns .

yes i've had that problem too some just can't learn quick enough but im using electric netting and goat panels around the perimeter where I can't see if they do get their heads stuck and only using field wire where their first pasture runs right in front of the cabin.

[mygoat]

I've got horned and disbudded. While I won't turn down a goat I want that comes with horns, everything born here is disbudded no matter what. I probably wouldn't buy a horned dairy, simply because there are others just as good without horns. For dairies it adds market/value oftentimes to disbud, and they have ridiculous horns, lol - that's what we get for not breeding for horn set shape for so long. :P I like the horn sets on boers, but hate managing horned goats.

Tried not disbudding boer kids one year - spent a long summer extracting the wethers from fences. After that, everything disbudded. In boers, horns are pretty much mandatory as they made disbudded animals not able to compete in shows or eligible for ennoblement... but mine weren't showing and weren't likely to be ennobled since they were mostly crosses - so I disbudded.

I'm loving that I sold the boers and pretty much have just the disbudded dairies. I have two mini goats with horns still, but their horns curve back and they can get in and out of any hole a disbudded goat can, due to horn shape and overall size. Disbudded makes for easier feeding and housing, here, and will always be my personal preference.

[Doug Hodges]

Can't stand horned goats. Always getting caught in something. For years I had to walk the fences everyday and remove boers from the webwire. That's a lot of walking around 40 acres with cross fences.

[Tango]

I think if one of the kids got stuck in a fence here, a stray dog would kill him before I found out. the strays here are out of hand. only place i am using field fence is inside my property in front of my cabin. my ds will be here next week, hope the ground thaws so we can put in posts.... actually maybe i shouldn't use field fence at all....

[countrygal]

I don't disbud. Those horns are there for a reason, and one reason I found was their own protection from predators. I have also found that, if they have a fever, the horns help to dispel the fever. They get hot.

I will never disbud a goat again. I feel it is like an amputation.

[Wendy]

No horns here. When I first got goats I had some with horns. I have seen too many get caught in the fence & have had one strangle themselves before I saw them. Horns can do a lot of damage to udders if they take that notion & I have had some does that are just downright mean. If they have horns, they know how to use them. Injury to my human kids is another reason not to have horns. While they don't do it on purpose, a head swinging can catch a kid in the eye or face. Not worth it to me.

I would not compare it to an amputation anymore than I would compare banding a buckling to an amputation. I have had people tell me it's cruel & horns are natural & should be left. If that is the reasoning, testicles should be left as they are natural too. Protection from predators should be with a good fence or guard dogs or both. A goat will not be able to defend itself from a pack of dogs or even one big dog, even with horns. Horns became pretty much unnecessary when man domesticated goats.

That being said, it is your own personal preference, but I will never have a horned anything here.

I also would not mix horned with no horns. Yes, it has been done with no problems, but it only takes one time to have an udder ripped open or an eye jabbed to make you re-think that.

[Tango]

I just wanted to see if it was about even between disbudding and leaving horns. I was a bit disappointed that my doelings wouldn't be disbudded but as I thought about it- it felt like a relief to me personally. I can't speak for anyone else. My first four will have horns and if I reserve anymore I will ask for them not to be disbudded but I'm sure the buck will have to be disbudded since I'd like a nice reg. buck and to sell him after (this is the plan) and he won't be running around willy nilly. I've been rethinking my fences all day and pricing panels online. I think by the end of the year I can have 2 acres fenced with electric netting and goat panels. I figure if I am gonna go for it, I need to keep them safe from the fence.

[Ford Zoo]

We have a mixed herd, and I prefer horns so we do not disbud. Some goats figure out on their own that they don't like getting stuck in the fence. The 2 does that haven't figured it out are proud wearers of the 'dummy stick': a 10" long piece of thick dowel rod taped to their horns preventing them from sticking their head thru.

My herd queen is a disbudded Nubian. She will head butt any horned goat and always wins. I cringe whenever I hear her butt heads with another. She stands over 6 feet on her hind legs so she can really deliver a wallop to any challenger.

I personally love the horns. Each breed has it's own and some are just beautiful.

If not for horns, we would have a time handling our kiko buck because the people that raised him were not smart on goat behavior and ruined him for handling. But he is not aggressive so we keep him, but when doing anything with him 2 people hold the end of either of his massive horns and he stays calm and lets us do anything with him. Without those horns to hold onto I think he would be miserable to handle. (Even though handling a buck's horns usually gets them going)

Our boer bucks are much gentler.

So I say go with what works with you. And I'll add that I appreciate that this post has stayed nice and informative.