Some feeding questions.

Ol_Thumpah · #1 01/01/14, 07:08 AM

So this is my first time owning goats and admittedly I don't know too much about them. We got them from someone who needed to offload them cause they got them and couldn't care from them and we had the space to take them in.

How much do you feed them grain wise? I feel like I'm giving them way too much. They eat about 3 quart scoops for 4 goats (one buck and three does) and the more I try and do research the more I feel that they are getting too much. When we first got them I felt like they were underfed so I just started in giving them as much grain as they wanted so they'd get nice and bulky but now that they are bulky I worry if maybe they are getting fat not nice and healthy. I give them hay too.

Also one of my goats isn't getting bigger at all. She was one of three and two didn't make it. She's the same age as my other goats (we got the does at the same time) but while they have seemed to have gotten bigger she stays just as tiny. They sort of pick on her a lot I wonder if that's why she's so small or do some goats just not get very big? They're all Nigerian dwarfs if that helps.

I'm also curious about minerals. I got a bag of goat minerals at TSC that I sprinkle on their food but I feel as though maybe that's not enough? Do I free choice said goat minerals? Should I get a lick or something instead?

Thanks in advance for any and all help! It's truly appreciated! I've tried googling and I get all sorts of results I figured it might just be good to ask people more knowledgeable than myself.

Alice In TX/MO · #2 01/01/14, 07:17 AM

Welcome to the wonderful and confusing world of goats.

Yes, you are overfeeding. I don't give my full size milkers that much, even when they are producing huge amounts of milk.

Nigerian dwarf goats need hay (good clean, nice smelling hay) and a TINY amount of grain or goat pellets. No more than 1/2 cup each, maybe twice a day.

Yes, the little one may just be small genetically, or she could have been stunted due to worms and cocci (another parasite.)

Goat minerals, yes, free choice. Read the bag to see about copper. It needs to have close to or above 2000 on the copper. At the moment, I can't remember if it's ppm or what. I'll check on that and get back to you.

What are your plans with the goats? Are they pets? Enjoy!

wvsjwest · #3 01/01/14, 07:45 AM

And remember if the does and buck are together your herd size could triple in a few short months!

Doug Hodges · #4 01/01/14, 08:07 AM

I'm feeding less than that much grain to 16 goats daily. Of course, they are just getting a taste while I fill the hay bins.

Clovers_Clan · #5 01/01/14, 08:17 AM

Welcome to the forum, and goat-hood! Sounds like you've already discovered that its hard to find good information on raising goats. Compared to cattle, sheep and other common livestock there is not much money commercially in goats. Therefore their needs, for the most part, have been ignored by feed companies, pharmaceutical companies and vet schools. You will often find the best sources of information from small breeders and homesteaders who have learned through years of experience. And this forum is great for that. Do some digging around on here to familiarize yourself. I highly recommend the "Sticky" posts at the top of the topics page to get started.

There are three major deadly communicable diseases to watch out for with goats: CL, CAE and Johnes. There's a great sticky on that subject.

Because goats are raised in climates that are warmer and wetter than the areas where wild goats originated, parasites can be a real concern. Barberpole worm is among the most serious, you will find several threads. As with all livestock wormers, there is a real problem with parasite resistance, so some are no longer effective in some areas. To complicate matters worse, no effective ones are marketed for goats, so you will have to use cattle/pig/horse wormers off label. Goats have very different metabolisms so the dosage rate often is different. And you may not be able to rely on the advice of some vets that have no experience with goats.

Many areas of the US (and worldwide) are deficient in minerals required to keep a goat healthy and parasite free. You are spot on with the free-choice mineral. It should be high in copper, sheep mineral will not work. Everyone on the forum has their favorite brand. There are also supplements such as Replamin and copasure that work well. From my own experience they will devour loose minerals at times and ignore them at others. They seem to know when they need them and when not, so offering free choice is a good way to make sure they have the right amount.

As for feed... Goats are ruminants, they have 4 part stomachs and regurgitate cud repeatedly to process their food. They are specially designed to digest forage that is very high in fiber. The bulk of their should be forage or good quality hay. Very little, if any grain is necessary. And it is advisable not to feed too much. Grain causes acidosis, shutting down the good flora in the rumen. There is a saying "A goat is only as good as its stomach." Most of the life-threatening conditions in goats affect their digestive tract. The health of a goat is truly dependent on keeping their rumen happy and functioning.

With the exception of meat goats, goats are meant to look a little thin. This is because they do not store fat on the "exterior" of their bodies. Fat is stored around organs. Body condition is one of the hardest things to rate in goats. It is normal to be able to see a bit of their hip bones and a little rib. They are too thin if you can feel spine processes, but you should be able to see the ridge of the spine. The cause of poor thrift in goats is usually parasites or underlying disease. Your's probably have come to you with worms. To determine what parasites they might have its a good idea to take a fecal sample to a vet. He/she will count the eggs and tell you the number and type. Once you have that information you'll be able to determine how to deworm, and we can help you with recommendations.

Nigerians can vary considerably in size. Especially if they are mixed with some other breed. This may be the case with your smaller doe. Goats do not reach full maturity until age 4 and some are fast maturing, others slow. If she is otherwise healthy, she probably just needs a little more time to grow. If you are concerned about the health of any of the does, go ahead and separate the buck from the does. Be aware that any or all may already be pregnant. When breeding goats you will spare yourself a lot of worry and heartache by keeping the sexes separate until YOU chose when they are ready to breed. Guessing when a doe is due to kid is darn near impossible and sometimes just guessing IF they are pregnant is! Doelings are capable of becoming pregnant LONG before they can safely deliver babies. There are several recent posts that attest to this. The outcomes are usually quite tragic. Bucks can also be mean and but around pregnant does. I lost a kid to this once. Bucks need less feed, so feeding them with pregnant or milking does usually results in a fat buck. If you are feeding grain it can also result in urinary calculi as well. In the long run, fencing a separate lot for your buck is a much easier management choice.

Sorry this is so long and hope I haven't scared you! You are asking all the right questions. The right management practices are vital to success and much easier than dealing with emergencies. It sounds like your goats are already in much better shape than when you got them. Once you get on top of the learning curve, goats are really enjoyable.

Happy New Year!

Farmer Jayne · #6 01/01/14, 08:59 AM

Welcome! When anyone asks me what it's like to keep goats, I tell them that goats create chaos. But, done right, it can be a good kind of chaos. The fun and exciting kind. I have kept goats for about 4 years now and I am still learning. This site is awesome and most of the people here are very friendly and willing to share their wealth of knowledge. Here's my 2 cents worth:
If you are able, tie them up separately to feed. This way, everyone gets enough food and the bully of the herd doesn't get too much. Also, if you have to administer individual meds or supplements you know who has eaten what. And it's easier to tell if someone isn't eating or doesn't feel well. We started this a couple of years ago mainly because my daughter was trying to feed them. She was about 13 at the time and is very small. We have Nubians. Before we started tying them, they had horrible manners and would knock her over and steal the food. Now they know they won't be fed until they are tied in their own station and are much calmer.
Good luck!

jcatblum · #7 01/01/14, 09:21 AM

I might have missed it, sorry if it was stated above. In addition to free choice Mineral & Hay offer free choice Baking Soda.

dozedotz · #8 01/01/14, 10:59 AM

Great advice for the beginner!! We all tend to think of our first goats as "dogs" or "cats" and their food as "chow." The feed stores will be very happy to sell you huge bags of goat feed, too! It takes rethinking the whole food thing to get goats right. Hay is what they need and forage, too, if at all possible. Grain is very, very secondary to goats and only applied in small amounts. The baking soda will help their digestive process and the minerals will keep them getting the trace items they might be missing. ONLY if they are in milk or REALLY thin will they need some "goat chow." Your boy especially can get into real trouble with urinary tract problems if he is fed grain. That is not to say that they do not LOVE grain! They do!! Be careful to store it in a safe place. These basics are the best advice you can get...now on to the rest!! LOL. Welcome!

punchiepal · #9 01/01/14, 12:40 PM

Yes, ND's can vary greatly in size. I have one doe that is about 55# when not pregnant while most of the other does are closer to 65-70# not pregnant. We don't grain ours at all unless they are milking, and even then very little.

Depending on where you are in Maine you may want to talk with Cheryle at http://oldmountainfarm.com/about.htm.

Ol_Thumpah · #10 01/03/14, 07:03 AM

Oh jeez! So I was overfeeding just like I thought but by way more than I thought. That's good to know. I started having my suspicions when they went from sort of hefty (which is good for winter) to really fat. Especially our buck.

Yeah I was separating them, cause I didn't want to breed them until I was ready, and then I asked my roommate to care for them while I went on an important work venture and he thought it was 'mean to keep them separated'

Yeah I'm sure the buck thought it was mean too, until he got to the ladies. I'm not sure if they are or not, but I'm keeping my eyes on them just in case. But only one of the goats seems to be going into heat which may mean the others are pregnant from what I've read.

I bought a bunch more bails of hay and only do a scoop for all four now which might be a little over what they should get but it is winter. They were pretty upset when they realised it wasn't as much as they usually get. I've also started tying up the buck so he can't get any more grain when I feed the ladies.

I got them at first thinking pets, but I'd like to do something with them so they can pay their own way. I've been reading up on how to make soap and will probably look for a class. Also I've heard they okay for meat too? (Not sure on that one) so I'd probably use some of them for that if I can. I'm new to this homesteading thing so every day is a new adventure!

Thanks for all the helpful suggestions and knowledge. This is why I come to places like this. Google-fu can only do so much.

Alice In TX/MO · #11 01/03/14, 07:08 AM

Absolutely meat-licious! I brined a goat shoulder, then slooooow cooked it on the smoker. Kept the temperature of the smoker under 250 degrees. Six hours. HEAVENLY!

Ol_Thumpah · #12 01/03/14, 07:19 AM

Great! I'm glad to have that confirmed. Like another user said the information on the internet can be a little wonky sometimes. I've found some good info sites but to be honest I think hearing it from people who have experience is the best no matter what.

While I don't live 'off the grid' in my homestead, my house is 30 minutes away from Portland, I'm very interesting in raising my own food. Especially meat. I'm weird in the sense that I'm all for animal rights but I also love meat! So I try and get my meat from local farmers but getting my own would be way better both financially and morally. Which is why the more i do research on goats the more i like what I see. Plus they're cute has heck!

My family used to raise sheep when I was little and I always thought I'd go the way of the sheep but since getting these goats I'm in love. I'd love, after winter, to get some proper goats. These ones are healthy but since they were rescues of friends who had friends that couldn't care for them I have no idea too much about them. They're perfect to practice on though and now I know I'm making them too fat. It's funny cause I thought about them in terms of horses (which I have the most experience with) so I just figured they should have a mix of grain and hay. Glad I caught it before they got to be too portly!

Clovers_Clan · #13 01/03/14, 07:22 AM

There's not much meat on a Nigerian but they have high butterfat for soap and can make good milkers depending on their genetics. Be sure to write down the date of their little fling, then count ahead 150 days thats a possible due date. Keep watching for signs of heat. And document on a calendar. In most climates Nigerians lean toward seasonal breeding so soon they may stop cycling until late summer. Don't count on it, just be aware, they can still breed out of season. Yes they will bawl and do their best to convince you they are STARVING! Goats are really good at guilt trips when it comes to food. They'll drive you nuts for a while until they get used to the new routine.

Pony · #14 01/03/14, 09:24 AM

Welcome to the addiction - er, uh... FUN of goats.

Great advice and suggestions here.

Just wanted to ask about the littlest one: The other goats are picking on her. Are they also keeping her away from the feed?

Ol_Thumpah · #15 01/03/14, 02:05 PM

They are a bit of an addiction! I can't wait to get more and have a proper dairy herd. xD

They try to but I usually try and make sure that the two biggest ones don't butt her away from her food. I usually feed her away from the others, in the girlies stall, to make sure she gets enough. If I'm not there to watch though I'm sure they knock her all around.

I dunno if there are dominant and submissive goats? Are there? Could that be a lot to do with why she's so tiny too? We make sure she gets grain, and they don't seem to bother her about hay, but even if there's not feed around they're picking on her. I feel bad for her sometimes.

Alice In TX/MO · #16 01/03/14, 02:13 PM

Absolutely there are dominant and submissive goats. They have a heirarchy, similar to a pecking order in the chicken yard.

One goat is "herd queen," and if you watch, you'll figure out who is boss of whom and who is at the bottom.

Just like third graders.

Ol_Thumpah · #17 01/03/14, 02:32 PM

That's what I thought after watching them for a bit but I wasn't sure! One thing I am sure of, knowing that, is that my girl 'Lady' is the 'herd queen'. Tiny is definitely on the bottom. Though she sticks with the middle goat a lot so I think it could be worse certainly.