Winter goat breeds

[Rob30]

I am looking into good winter goat breeds. I used a kiko X breed this year as a buck. But he does not seem any hardier than my boer or dairy breeds. Maybe a pure kiko would have been better, but I could not find one. I keep these goats basically for milk, but I want kids that are bulky enough to sell into the meat market. Our goats are outside all the time. In winter they are with sheep.

[paintpony]

Goats really do need some sort of shelter from the weather. Even sheep will benefit from having access to a run in shed to get out of the cold, windy, wet weather.

[Rob30]

We have a run in for the sheep and goats. But our winters can get very cold and damp. Even inside our barn is fairly cold through out the winter. But if we put all the stock in the barn we end up with high moisture and pneumonia as a result. The run in works great for sheep. They are comfortable, but the goats are always cold looking. We have one boer goat that seems to have no issues with the cold Our kiko cross buck actually seems to have the biggest problem. We ended up putting him in the barn by himself this week. He is not impressed.

[paintpony]

Then it sounds like you have a barn problem and not a livestock problem. Get more air flow into the barn, feed the livestock more hay to stoke their internal fire box (rumination) and they should be fine. Wind and dampness is not a good thing. If they are inside a well ventilated barn (but not drafty) that is cold AND they have plenty of hay they should be fine.

[wintrrwolf]

My kiko buckling has a really nice coat for winter the ice and bitter winds didn't seem to faze him or my other goats...well beside they all prefered to stay inside the shed and eat hay. (shrug)

[paintpony]

winterwolf,

Rob30 is in Canada. It's a lot colder in Canada.

[wintrrwolf]

right ...
winter type goats..
Kiko's are from New Zealand
Saanen's from Switzerland
Alpine's originated from the French Alps
Toggenburg from Switzerland
of course if they are crossed with african breeds then you get something else.
the kiko buckling I have is 100% New Zealand but I have never been there so don't really know how cold it gets.
ooops almost forgot one
The Oberhasli, also known until 1978 as the Swiss Alpine, is a very old breed of dairy goat from the eponymous district of the Canton of Berne in Switzerland

[paintpony]

I'm not saying goats can't live in cold regions. His original post said they lived outdoors all the time sounding like they had no shelter. There are sheep people out there that don't give sheep shelter. Those Alpine/Swiss type goats didn't live outdoors in winter without shelter. If I remember right, the Swiss/Alpine peoples had the livestock on the ground floor and they themselves lived above what would be their barn. Personally, if I had a milk goat that was using all her stores for keeping warm and not putting milk in the bucket, I would look for a way to fix the problem and not just blame goats for lack of hardiness. When I lived in upstate New York all I had was a run in shed for my Nubians. They had plenty of hay and didn't come out of that shed voluntarily when the weather was bad. I also didn't breed for winter kidding, no frozen ears.

[wintrrwolf]

I agree with that, my dairy goats have a run in shed with a breeze way that helps block the wind I also put up a large rug tapestry over the door so they can come in and out but it helps maintain warmth inside. Since I do milk my goats I don't want ALL their food consumption to go to staying warm. I agreed to the kiko buckling as an experiment to breed him with my unregistered nubian Pearl and see how well the kids come out, develop, and with any doelings milk production.
The difference between my nubians and the kiko, the nubians have got their winter coats on but their's are nothing compared to PartyTimes coat.
My opinion Rob is your heading in the right direction the new zealand kiko's were bred from "feral" wild goats. Be patient you will find what you need.

[Ford Zoo]

When I read your post my first thought was that maybe it was simply his breeding. But then I remembered our own situation several weeks ago when it was minus20-30 for a few days. The only goats shivering where my three bucks who are now housed together in a warm barn, which they share with some 8 month old doelings (separate pens).

Our bucks consist of two boers and one 100%NZ kiko. I noticed that besides eating all their bedding (at least the does and doelings seem to be smart enough to leave some to lay on-and everyone has ample hay in the feeders), those bucks will NOT snuggle up together and keep each other warm. I'm thinking its a macho boy issue.

[wintrrwolf]

Originally Posted by Ford Zoo

When I read your post my first thought was that maybe it was simply his breeding. But then I remembered our own situation several weeks ago when it was minus20-30 for a few days. The only goats shivering where my three bucks who are now housed together in a warm barn, which they share with some 8 month old doelings (separate pens).

Our bucks consist of two boers and one 100%NZ kiko. I noticed that besides eating all their bedding (at least the does and doelings seem to be smart enough to leave some to lay on-and everyone has ample hay in the feeders), those bucks will NOT snuggle up together and keep each other warm. I'm thinking its a macho boy issue.

Oh man this made me laugh

[mygoat]

Goats do not have weatherproof wool and NEED shelter... all goats should be fine in cold if we'll fed and well housed/bedded. The moisture in the barn is the wool wicking. Increase ventilation.

[Alice In TX/MO]

We lived in Norway for a while, and I can tell you from first hand knowledge that the domestic livestock does NOT live outside in the depths of winter. Norway's cattle (and I assume goats) spend the winter in the most wonderful barns, built into the sides of hills. The floor of the living level is slatted so the manure and urine fall through to the lower level. In the spring, the farmers spread the slurry on their fields. The whole country smells of natural fertilizer for weeks in the spring.

A quick google search yielded the bank barn:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_barn

[Rob30]

Ok everyone I don't think everyone has the right idea here about what I originally wanted to know.
First of all, my goats have shelter. They have a run in shelter. But they come out into a yard for grain and water. We have a barn, but we can not keep it well ventilated and keep it warm. Our winters are very damp and cold. Not a good combination. That is why we started using the run in. While the goats refer it in the barn, we have found the sheep and goats stay healthier when wintered outside with a run in shelter.
Out of all the goats we have the boer (the African breed) seems to do the best in our winter weather. I am looking for a hardier breed, dairy type goats do not work as well. That being said our Kiko dairy cross buck seems to have the hardest time in the cold.
We use a basket type feeder and there is always a lot of waste that the goats use as bedding.
What I originally should have asked is what breeds are best suited for cold weather? Does anyone have experience with purebred kikos in cold weather? I want to breed towards a hardier goat.
We will not be milking until early spring.

[Alice In TX/MO]

I just did some reading, and Kikos are from a temperate climate. Also, they are hard to find!

Sounds like you might just have to pick and choose from what works in your area for other goat breeders. Then, breed the best and eat the rest.

For entertainment, you could look at some very rare and interesting Italian goats:
http://eng.agraria.org/goat/orobica.htm

[MeanestMommy]

I have found Nigerians to be extremely hardy in my cold climate (interior Alaska). Until we bought our new property, my five Nigies wintered in an old 8'x8 uninsulated wooden playhouse. We boarded up the door, cut a large "dog door" style entrance for them, and hung a horse blanket over it to cut the draft. Plenty of straw bedding and hay to eat and they made it just fine through the winter, including a cold snap of 25 days of -30 to -48. They could come and go as they pleased and we had zero issues.

I would love to have larger breeds, but you just can't beat the hardiness of a Nigerian when you live in areas with long, cold winters.

[Clovers_Clan]

Surely there must be some population of landrace goats in Canada as there is in Iceland. Found this interesting: http://www.isbona.com/vol7no1win03.html. Perhaps some percentage of Cashmere would help with hardiness. Boer mass and undercoat should be desirable traits. Maybe find an established breeder that has raised many generations of goats and culled heavily in favor of hardiness traits?

[KSALguy]

I would seriously look for other local breeders of Anything that is the size and type you want that is surviving well in the same climate and breed toward your own type for YOUR environment, its how all the other breeds were made, breed the best for your needs and cull hard, eventually you will have the perfect goat for what you are wanting and for your climate,

[Ford Zoo]

Maybe I should elaborate. The shivering buck I have is 100% NZ Kiko-an embryo import from the New Zealand mountain that his ancestors survived on that included over 6 months of hard winter with no human intervention, but I also have a 100% NZ doe and their offspring-a doeling-who both do fine in the cold but they snuggle with their comrades. Like Meanestmommy (I have a feeling that is a misnomer ) I started with Nigerians and find them to be very hardy in the subzero weather that your Canadian drafts bring us here in far northern WI.

Our herd consists of a diverse mix of dairy and meat breeds and I fear not for any of their wellbeings in sub zero weather, only for my own conscious when I lay in bed at night next to the warm woodstove.

We are expecting minus 65 degrees with the wind chill the next few days. All goats and livestock dogs have shelter from the wind and plenty of deep bedding. This has always worked in the past and we have never had an animal freeze to death. Most have a run into large barns, a few have a little hut.

Hope this helps. The final determination will be the herd's maintenance plan and not their climate as long as they have shelter. Do not give up on your Kiko!

[CAjerseychick]

Try a fiber breed buck- cashmere or even the guernseys have a nice coat on them....