Christmas baby! But need some advice please . . .

[copperkid3]

Molly, the matriarch of the group (but NOT the herd queen)

was standing off by herself this morning when I brought out the hay bale.

Nothing particularly unusual about such behaviour, except she is clearly

very, very pregnant. Normally she throws twins, so figured the time was close

and checked back in a couple hours, to find that she had delivered a fine,

healthy red & white boer doeling! Afterbirth still not out and she still looks

'heavy' and pregnant. Of course, she sits a bit low-in-the-water anyway, so

it's not a slam dunk call, but since she has ALWAYS had twins, was a bit

concerned. The other 'problem' with Molly, is that while she is a very good mother,

she has homongous sausage tits which make it nearly impossible for new borns

to nurse by themselves. Lost one of the twins last year because of it and the other

I just managed to save, by milking enough out of her, transferring into a bottle and

bottle feeding the kid inside for a week or so. Eventually, I was able to re-introduce

him back to mom, as his mouth was now big enough to latch onto, but the

transition was difficult to say the least & I don't want to play nursemaid again.

The newborn is still damp & as far as I'm able to determine . . . still unfed.

Temperature hovering around 25°f and afterbirth still not completely expelled from

Molly. Should I be concerned after 4 hours+ that no other kid is forthcoming,

or planning on making room inside and caring for yet another bottle baby?

If so, then Molly is heading to the sale barn next goat auction.

[Doug Hodges]

Dry the kid. Bring inside. Milk out some colostrum and feed her.

[Doug Hodges]

Im not of of the experts but if it was me and she still looked like she was in labor. I would go in and check.

[Pony]

Have you bounced the doe? Gone in to look?

I'd certainly milk her out, to get the colostrum and to stimulate uterine contractions. If she's always thrown multiples, then I'd goo up and go hunting.

[copperkid3]

Well . . . I went out and brought the doeling inside to warm up and dry off.

She immediately settled in, laid down and went to sleep. Got invited to a

Christmas dinner, so when I return, will milk Molly, then transfer to a bottle

& try feeding Noel. Hopefully things will work out; she's a beauty!

[Freeholder]

I guess it's too late now -- hopefully the kid will be okay. But if it was me, I would have called in late to the Christmas dinner and gotten colostrum into that kid right away. And I would have gone into the doe to make sure she didn't have any more in there. I wouldn't send her to the sale barn until the kid was weaned, but my goats are dairy, and I'm milking anyway (I don't normally leave kids on their dams, they all get bottle-fed) so I wouldn't want to be buying milk replacer. But I WOULD send her to the sale barn as soon as the kid was weaned!

Kathleen

[mygoat]

I see several management issues here.

First - if you expect your goats to kid in this kind of weather, it WILL mean attending each birth and drying the kids off. If you do NOT want to do that, then kid them out in May when the kids have a better chance of surviving on their own with no assistance. Mine are usually born first week of March and I am out there every couple hours, more if I know a doe is in labor. I help dry each kid, make SURE it's nursing before I leave. I accept this as part of my husbandry for kidding them out in those temps. ALWAYS check for more kids - sooner rather than later!

I'm all for culling this doe if she isn't a good mother and her teats mean extra work for you. But practice SMART culling - it'll save you work and money in the long run. Get this doe chcked for more kids, and get her kid nursing asap. Once her kids are raised, cull her and any kids you don't want at auction for meat... you get money in your pocket from the sale, and you do the humane thing not allowing her kids to die of starvation/hypothermia, and prevent her from dying a poor death in a labor gone wrong. I've had to intervene in more kiddings than I want to admit when raising my pygmy mutts (rarely since then, lol) and most take literally minutes to fix, and the doe is back standing, nursing, and makes it back to the hay bale sooner. The quicker the fix, the less damage/trauma, the less pain - and the less pain, the better mother and sooner she'll get back to eating and producing milk.

Second - if you want your kids to be healthy, get colostrum in them ASAP after birth. I've never seen a teat size that a kid couldn't figure out, albeit it may mean helping the kid out a few times per day for the first few days - but they WILL figure it out and be fine - but yes, you will have to assist. It doesn't mean every two hours, but I'd make sure it latches on good at least 3x per day. Which, during kidding season, you ought to be in the barn ANYWAYS in these temps. It will be a lot less restrictive than bottle feeding in the long run.

Third - watch these kids like a hawk for the first week of life or so. Even the best mothers can be fuddled if their kid wanders away or gets stuck somewhere. Plan your kidding season to be conveneint for your schedule, too. I know we can't plan everything, but I'm seeing a lot of 'I hope it survives' that could be avoided or helped.

[unregistered65598]

Ok I don't own and have never raised goats, but I am so disturbed by this post. Please tell me the momma and baby are ok.

[LFRJ]

Let's all ease up a little on the OP as far as management issues, but yes, I'm interested also, Copperkid3, in how you're fairing. I hope doe and kid and you are doing okay.

[GraceAlice]

Yes, I think we can all admit we have done a few farm-related things not so perfectly, so I think we can back off a little and try to help out instead.

How is everyone? I hope you have a baby goat all warm and snuggly with his momma!

[Shayanna]

Where are the pics?
I don't believe there is a little doeling at all...

[unregistered65598]

I wish there was an unlike button.

[copperkid3]

needed advice was sought, it happened 10+ months ago for a stuck, dead & partially birthed kid.
But the reaming was so bad, that I had considered NOT coming back and asking for help again.
Regarding management issues . . . now that's a sticky wicket, as the keeping of the goats was the x's idea. She wanted them BEFORE we even started the dream house - which meant a barn built first.
She started caring for them, but the brunt of the labor/work fell to yours truly. Eventually she
grew tired of me and the goats & abandoned everything . . . even refusing to divide up or take ANY
of the critters. I've always felt a responsibility to an animal; if you are planning on it being a farm animal then it either pays its way, or gets culled/sold. If it's considered a pet, then you take care of it for its' lifetime. Problem being that now . . . I've got a LOT of pet goats!!! Enough on that for now & on with what's been happening since Christmas. Molly is well & had no other kid(s). Noel was brought inside & kept in a cardboard box for 36 hrs - although I did bring her outside when I went to milk her mom and as I'd hoped - both were happy to be reunited. However, Noel still couldn't figure out, how to operate the milk dispenser.
So I tied Molly up, and proceeded to milk out the left side as much as possible. The right side is nearly impossible to get anything out of and what little does come, is mostly hit & miss as her tit faces backwards and little gets in the bucket! Anyway, transferred the milk to a bottle w/nipple & fed Noel in front of Molly, who seemed displeased by the proceedings. Went out again both this morning and afternoon;
having let her finish off the leftover from last night and then to remilk Molly. Noel seemed to be
"interested" in the proceedings & began butting around Molly's front legs. Told her she'd do better,
back where I was working. Grabbed her up and shoved her near an available 'appendage' but seriously doubted anything would come of it. Finally was able to maneuver her head in the correct direction with my left hand, while directing a gentle stream of warm milk from momma's teat with my right hand & suddenly it was like a lightbulb flashed over her head. She got it!!! For nearly 30 seconds she seemed to not only grasp the idea, but the end of the sausage tit as well. And then it slipped out and we had to start anew. I don't think she's quite ready to give up the bottle feeding yet, but she appears to be bright enough that I believe she'll figure it out in the next few days on her own. Although I intend to keep a close watch, to make sure she does. Despite there only being 3 & 4 days between her and the other doelings in age, she is
visibly smaller & not as developed as they are. I attribute this to not getting as many feedings
(although she doesn't eat nearly as much as others I've bottle fed in the past; probably half)
as natural fed kids. And it's also possible, that she is a premie; as my calender says that Molly should have been due in mid January! They are all little darlings and if I can figure out how to send their photos to Shayvanna, maybe she can figure out how to post them on here. My tablet will only allow me to send pics via private emails & none of the customer techs at Verizon have been able to figure out anything else to solve it.
+ + + + + +

Originally Posted by LFRJ

Let's all ease up a little on the OP as far as management issues, but yes, I'm interested also, Copperkid3, in how you're fairing. I hope doe and kid and you are doing okay.

Originally Posted by GraceAlice

Yes, I think we can all admit we have done a few farm-related things not so perfectly, so I think we can back off a little and try to help out instead.

How is everyone? I hope you have a baby goat all warm and snuggly with his momma!

Originally Posted by Shayanna

Where are the pics?
I don't believe there is a little doeling at all...

[copperkid3]

Originally Posted by Merks

Ok I don't own and have never raised goats, but I am so disturbed by this post. Please tell me the momma and baby are ok.

Originally Posted by Merks

I wish there was an unlike button.

+ + + + + +
But the last comment was completely unnecessary.

(And I pause again and wonder aloud: "Why do I even bother?")

[LFRJ]

Thanks for the update, and for hanging in there - with us and with goats. That's rough being dumped, along with the goats and other critters the X claimed to have cared about.

And a big thumbs up to you for sticking by them, especially if the goats weren't on your wish list. Many others would have shown far less care and concern, resulting in very little hope for the newborn doeling who's chances are already compromised.

Great name by the way, Noel, for a Christmas baby. Hope your holiday perked up! Time consuming, and not what you were expecting - but beats having to spend Christmas digging a hole.

[LFRJ]

Originally Posted by katydidagain

deleted post was quoted here

Down girl! Let's show a little support.

[copperkid3]

Originally Posted by katydidagain

deleted post was quoted here .

+ + + + + +
for ANY help or personal opinions from you in the future!

There seems to be an 'elitist' stench & attitude that permeates

this forum on an all too frequent occasion, from a certain number of members.

This is unfortunate and can cause newbies to shy away and others to waste

time & energy in smoothing out ruffled feathers. Fortunately, I'm no longer a

newbie and even more fortunately, I've got friends who have fast fingers when

sending P.M.'s, otherwise there would have been some things said to some that

needed hearing it . . . But that would have been the last you'd be hearing from me.

And I don't need to make my point that way. The bullies know who they are and

public shunning works amazingly well in such cases.

[mygoat]

I suggested considerations with your success and the health of your animals in mind. I hope that my behavior wasn't 'elitist' because Iattempted to help you. In 12 years of raising goats, these similar topics and the mindset that is mostly, "I hope it survives" does get very old especially when there are simple things you could do to not only improve your ease of management, but also improve the health and productivity of your goats. I hope it is a consideration for your future management. I raise goats as livestock, but even from that standpoint I clearly indicated why checking for kids and getting the doeling nursing asap were good management practices for YOU, not just the goats. The learning curve never ends, at least it hasn't for me. I wish you luck with the rest of your kiddings.

[unregistered65598]

Originally Posted by copperkid3

+ + + + + +
But the last comment was completely unnecessary.
my apologizes for the last comment, I guess I should have said a sad button, that's what I was thinking when I said unlike.
(And I pause again and wonder aloud: "Why do I even bother?")

I am so happy to hear that the momma and baby are doing well. I wanted goats at one time but reading all the horror birthing stories here changed my mind quick.

[mygoat]

Originally Posted by Merks

I am so happy to hear that the momma and baby are doing well. I wanted goats at one time but reading all the horror birthing stories here changed my mind quick.

That can be deceiving. Most goats do NOT have kidding problems. The horrific kidding problems you read about here just SEEM common because they get more attention than the 'well that was boring... here are baby pictures!" posts.