Diarrhea Help?

rabbitpatch · #1 11/30/13, 01:16 PM

I have an almost 8 month old wether with diarrhea. He has a twin brother who is unaffected, nor are any of the three does they are pastured with.

I found him with it Tuesday. Based on the lovely *insert sarcasm* weather (i.e. stress), the wetness we've had all year, and his age, I began treatment for coccidosis.

Since then he has had twice a day doses of CoRid and Sulmet, as this combination has always worked for me before. He has also had twice a day mega doses of pepto and electrolytes. On Tuesday I dewormed him with a large dose of SafeGuard (didn't want to over stress him with anything stronger until the diarrhea stops). I also gave him a dose of probiotics. On Wednesday, along with his other dailies, I gave him a dose of Selenium & E gel. When giving CoRid I also usually give a daily dose of Fortified B Complex but I'll be dang if I couldn't find any of my needles (I keep a collection of them so I always have the size I need, except for *now* when I can't find any of them). So I was delayed in starting the B Complex. Today he was a little wobbly, so I gave him 5cc's on either side of his abdomen, 6cc's in his shoulder, and 5cc's orally for good measure. The wobbliness has since gotten better, so hopefully I have averted that additional problem for him. I also gave him some molasses.

He still has a good appetite, and protests the drenching syringe. Eats plenty of hay and nibbles at what green things he can still find. Other than the occasional treat, he has never been feed grain, and is not getting any now. He and his brother still nurse their dam off and on too.

The diarrhea however does not seem to be improving. It has been pure liquid this whole time. Last night I thought it was improving because I watched him drop what came out looking like a very soft but formed turd, but splattered when it hit the ground. Today however, it was back to being pure liquid again. Due to my work schedule and the fact that my goats are pastured 10 miles away from my home, I have not been able to give him the pepto more than twice a day until today (which is why I was giving him large doses). This afternoon I brought him home to my back yard and I am giving him a normal sized dose of pepto every 1-2 hours.

What do ya'll think? Do you think the more frequent doses of pepto are what he needs (I'll let you know later if it seems to be helping), or is something else wrong that I should be treating him for?

myheaven · #2 11/30/13, 02:37 PM

How much pepto are you giving him. My vet has me give 15cc per 10 lbs. my 30 lbs buck this summer got 40 cc 2 x a day. Had to stay on it for 2 weeks. But it was the only thing that helped him out.

rabbitpatch · #3 11/30/13, 03:13 PM

Approximately 70cc's each dose when I was giving it twice a day (my drenching syringe is marked to 35cc's but holds another cc or so and I've been filling it full, twice with each dose). He weighs approximately 35 lbs. While giving it this afternoon, since I'm giving it every 1.5 hours-ish, I've been giving only 1 syringe full each time. I haven't seen any puddles in the 10x10 pen I currently have him and his brother in, but the one time I saw him defecate, it was still liquid.

And he has started to act like he feels bad too, which worries me. All week he has acted normal until today, and today he isn't interested in what the other goats (or I) are doing.

I'm going to give him another dose of pepto in about 15 minutes, and another B complex shot to see if it helps any.

Backfourty,MI. · #4 11/30/13, 03:24 PM

I know his tummy is probably upset but I would still worm him with Cydectin or Quest.
Did he have Coccidiosis prevention when he was younger? I always use Di-Methox 40% as my preventative & never had cocci problem here but others have used the same for prevention with excellent results.
Below is the link with the wormer dosages in it.

http://www.dairygoatinfo.com/f28/wor...wormers-21389/

Pony · #5 11/30/13, 06:48 PM

If you have the time, energy, and inclination, a black tea enema may help.

Make some very strong tea (Tetley, Lipton, whatever as long as it's orange pekoe type), let it cool, and go ahead with the enema. We use a 60 cc syringe (w/o a needle, of course).

rabbitpatch · #6 11/30/13, 06:57 PM

Pony, what does the tea enema do?

Pony · #7 11/30/13, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rabbitpatch

Pony, what does the tea enema do?

I don't know exactly. When my daughter was little and suffering diarrhea from too many antibiotics (chronic ear infections), her pediatrician recommended it.

Worked great for the child, and worked great when we've used it on scouring goats. I think it does something to slow the gut down, maybe cleans things out?

I just know that it has worked when we've done it.

rabbitpatch · #8 11/30/13, 07:52 PM

Is it a one time thing or how often do you repeat?

**mygoat** · #9 11/30/13, 08:41 PM

Check eye membranes and take a temp. With extended stomach upset I'd consider giving antitoxin to ward off possible overgrowth of C. perfringens. Is this a standard size goat? 35lb at 8 months is TINY for standard... I have an early June doeling who I'm breeding (hopefully tomorrow!) who is about 80lbs. I'd take a bathroom scale out there and weigh him - he may be bigger than you expect. That will allow for better dosing of the dewormers... I find the weight tape is not accurate for young animals.

I'd give a stronger dewormer orally. They're not going to cause more stomach upset. Taking a fecal in now may not tell you much ... this time of year they aren't shedding much into the environment and liquid samples aren't concentrated enough for a good float and count. But, it can vary...

Large doses of probiotics at least 2x per day would be a priority, here.

Usually enemas are good for rehydration, if you think he might be becoming dehydrated. Usually with diarrhea you get depleted in potassium because the contents are moving so fast through the bowel, it doesn't have time to absorb. You can also add vitamins/electrolytes to his water which will increase intake and help him to maintain proper ion levels.

rabbitpatch · #10 11/30/13, 09:51 PM

"Standard" size is relative in this case. Both of his parents are "standard" breeds, but are small for their breed. His dam grew out very slowly. These guys are actually bigger than previous kids out of this same doe. She doesn't make big babies but she makes lots of good milk, which is why I keep her. I weighed him by picking him up in my arms. He's 10-15lbs lighter than a 50lb bag of feed.

Eye membranes are pale, which is why I dewormed. I did give him a dose of moxidectin this afternoon. His temperature the last time I checked was 102.4 (mid-afternoon today).

I am out of anti-toxin and can't get any. None of the local feed stores carry it and TSC is out and can't tell me when they will get more. The closest TSC that has any is more than 3 hours away and the concept of transferring it to a closer store for me was a foreign concept to them. It's on my list of things to mail-order, but that won't help me right now.

I gave the tea enema as pony suggested, along with more pepto just a little while ago. I've been giving him electrolytes with the drenching syringe too, so I can be certain he's getting them. He's not getting any worse so far, just not any better that I can tell either.

What do you consider a "large" dose of probiotics? I'm giving him the adult dose for the brand I have, which is 5 cc's per dose.

rabbitpatch · #11 12/01/13, 07:22 PM

I fear he's not going to make it. The diarrhea finally did stop, but he's soooooo weak. He acts like he's interested in food and will even take a bite into his mouth, but after chewing just a little he drops it and stares at it. He is "down" now too. If I pick him up, he can stand for a minute or two, but then he just lays back down. He actually takes the time to lay down rather than falling, but he clearly doesn't feel well. This evening, in between me dosing him with electrolytes, he did chew a little cud of his own, so obviously he has been eating *something* - I just don't think he's eating enough to build his energy back up. I gave him some more molasses tonight too, hoping that will help boost his energy some.

His brother is staying right with him as if he's watching over him, which is kind of sweet yet sad.

Pony · #12 12/01/13, 08:23 PM

Wow, I am sorry he's slipping away from you... BUT where there's life, there's hope, yes? Keep doing what you can to support him, maybe spoon/syringe some warmed up yogurt into him, hit him with injectable B if you have any, some C certainly wouldn't hurt (injectable, if you can, as oral may induce another diarrhea).

Hang in, keep going. You're doing great, you really are. {hug}

rabbitpatch · #13 12/01/13, 08:57 PM

I've been giving him B complex injections since yesterday. He's had quite a bit already, but since it's one of those things that is hard to over do, I figure it can't hurt. I don't have any injectable C - I've never seen it at any of our local feed stores.

I did milk out his dam and give him a little of that, in hopes that it will give him a boost. He was staring longingly at her udder earlier today but I don't think he had the energy to get on his knees to nurse her. That was the one thing I gave him that seemed to make him happy tonight. I'm hesitant to give him much more orally, for fear of causing aspiration pneumonia. I'm going back to check on him again around midnight. He's definitely a fighter, but I just don't know.....wish I had some miracle in a bottle because I'd sure use it.

Pony · #14 12/01/13, 09:16 PM

If he's swallowing well, I wouldn't worry about aspiration pneumonia. At this point, any food you can get into him is good food, yes?

I'm praying for a miracle for your little guy and you.

rabbitpatch · #15 12/01/13, 09:19 PM

Is there something else I can give him besides molasses? I do have his dam's milk, but if I give him too much at once it may cause the diarrhea to come back. I have the molasses - I'm not worried about that - but if there is something better I can give him, I'll certainly try.

Pony · #16 12/01/13, 09:24 PM

I'd hold off on the molasses. That could cause a diarrhea if you gave too much. Dam's milk is probably the best thing you have going for you right now.

Frosted Mini's · #17 12/01/13, 10:30 PM

Do you have anything green growing? You might tempt him with some browse. Maybe use your blender to make a smoothy of fruits and leafy green veggies?? Perhaps he would even just eat that? Anything to help his energy but not give him diarrhea might help. I would also try and swipe a cud from his momma and give to him/force into him...you can mix with water and squirt into him.

rabbitpatch · #18 12/01/13, 10:35 PM

I offered him a fresh pine cutting this evening. He took it into his mouth and chewed it for a second, but then he let it fall to the ground and just looked at it. I offered him some loose alfalfa too and he just sniffed it. I'm going to try taking a few green things with me when I go back to check on him again soon.

Frosted Mini's · #19 12/02/13, 12:35 AM

Have you checked his mouth/teeth. Feel along the outside of his mouth and see if you can feel anything. The taking things into his mouth then spitting out seems unusual, like maybe something in his mouth is bothering him.

Frosted Mini's · #20 12/02/13, 12:47 AM

It seems also like he needs some help with his rumen after all this stuff that's been going on, and perhaps that was part of the problem. Keep up the b's and if you have thiamin, I would give that as well--can't hurt, might help. If you have any feed yeast, it can be a big help for the rumen. Maybe see if he will take some baking soda and for sure stop the molasses for now, as that can upset the rumen. Then I think the biggest help would be to get him some stolen cud. Better would be to tube some juices from the liquid part of a healthy goat's rumen, but I'm not quite sure how to do that. If you stick your finger in along the donor goat's cheek, being careful to avoid the sharp molars, you should be able to swipe some cud right when they bring one up (where gloves, that smell doesn't wash off easily!); then mix with some water and drench him with it. Not too much water though, just enough to get it to go thru a syringe. Alternatively, you could try a balling gun. Do you have any bananas? See if he might want one? My friend had a doeling with diarrhea that was really sick and all she really wanted to eat was banana and canned pumpkin...as she got better she didn't want it any more.