beginner questions

[coontrap]

I am wanting to raise 1-2 goats for milk and have a few questions. What size pen would I need to build? What type of goats should I get? What do y'all feed your goats?

[Doug Hodges]

Originally Posted by coontrap

I am wanting to raise 1-2 goats for milk and have a few questions. What size pen would I need to build? What type of goats should I get? What do y'all feed your goats?

O my. I was like you earlier this year. The best thing is start reading old threads. All these questions have been asked repeatedly. If you research you will find tons of advice. Good luck.

[Pony]

Stay away from Doug. Your "one or two" goats will turn into double-digit numbers.

Oh. All kidding aside, goats need a companion of the same species. They are much happier and you will be, too. If you don't get a buddy-goat, then YOU will become the single-goat's "herd" and BFF.

That gets annoying quickly.

Pen size is dependent (no pun intended) on how you plan to feed. Are you going to dry-lot, or do you want your goats to graze? What breed of goat are you thinking of? Smaller breeds take up less space, but production will be lower than from larger goats. (You want Nubians, BTW. Yes you do, don't let anyone tell you differently.)

If you have access to quality hay (high protein, high calcium) then that will make up the majority of your goats' diet. If you prefer bag feed, then you will need to find the proper ratios of calcium and protein.

Minerals, baking soda, supplementation pertaining to your locality. For example, the area in which I live is deficient in selenium and copper, so we supplement with those.

Good luck in your research! Looking forward to seeing your posts here as you explore the <drum roll> Wonderful World of GOATS!!!

[Doug Hodges]

Agreed. Definitely 3 Nubians to start.

[gila_dog]

I'll probably stir up some disagreement with this but...
My neighbor had some Nubian goats. They were very noisy, always yelling about something. They gave lots of milk, had lots of babies, and were good milk goats, but they made a lot of noise. So if you think you (or your neighbors) would get tired of that, it's something to think about.

My goats, on the other hand, are very quiet. Mine are wethers I use for packgoats. They are Saanen and Oberhasli.The only time I hear them is if they are hungry, thirsty, or if dogs or coyotes are around. In those cases I need to do something about it, but otherwise they are quiet. The Alpines I've been around are pretty quiet too. But I think La Manchas are noisy.

[Pony]

Originally Posted by gila_dog

I'll probably stir up some disagreement with this but...
My neighbor had some Nubian goats. They were very noisy, always yelling about something. They gave lots of milk, had lots of babies, and were good milk goats, but they made a lot of noise. So if you think you (or your neighbors) would get tired of that, it's something to think about.

My goats, on the other hand, are very quiet. Mine are wethers I use for packgoats. They are Saanen and Oberhasli.The only time I hear them is if they are hungry, thirsty, or if dogs or coyotes are around. In those cases I need to do something about it, but otherwise they are quiet. The Alpines I've been around are pretty quiet too. But I think La Manchas are noisy.

You're right. You could stir up some disagreement. I know, shocking, isn't it? LOL!!!

The thing is, we frequently joke about which breed is best. I just jumped in ahead of time.

Now, re: your neighbor's Nubians, if they were all yelling, all the time, then there was something wrong in their management. My Nubians are really quite quiet, and very even-tempered.

Most importantly, however, the OP was asking about DAIRY goats. Girl-type goats, you see... and... Ah... well, how to say this delicately?

The thing is, you're just not going to get a whole lot of milk from wethers.

Just sayin'.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Here is a great place to start reading. Do a LOT of research before you buy goats.
http://www.fiascofarm.com/goats/index.htm

[Doug Hodges]

Originally Posted by gila_dog

I'll probably stir up some disagreement with this but...
My neighbor had some Nubian goats. They were very noisy, always yelling about something. They gave lots of milk, had lots of babies, and were good milk goats, but they made a lot of noise.
My goats, on the other hand, are very quiet. Mine are wethers I use for packgoats.

Same thing Pony said. I agree that wethers don't put out much milk. Lol.

My Nubians only make noise when I go out to feed. Then they holler quite a bit. Lol. But it's not annoying at all and it's only when it's time to put out more hay.

[motdaugrnds]

This is a funny thread already. So suitable for posts about goats as they are indeed lots of fun....especially the Nubians!

I'm quite biased in that I love my large Nubians! Mine are only noisy when I am late with their feed or the milking or their water bucket is empty or they have stumped a toe or ....... All kidding aside, I have close neighbors and never a complaint from them. Of course my herd is quite small. I think the Nubians are simply more human oriented than many breeds; they they like to converse with us more.

Coontrap, you're getting great advise with the joking in here. I cannot really suggest a breed as I don't know what you're going to do with the milk. "Dairy" breeds give different types of milk, some with more cream in it. (The best "tasting" milk I ever had was from a Toggenburg!)

A "couple" of goats (does) will not require a large housing as they will cuddle and kid together. I've raised Nubians since 1996; and if I were only going to house two does, I would build a house about 16' x 30' and place a milking staunching on one end of it with a small loft in the top for storing enough hay to get two does thru bad weather.

The structure I am referring to is really not large enough for two goats to live in ALL THE TIME. They need a good-sized area to "browse" in just for their health sake. Not know your set-up I have no idea what to suggest to you.

[Freeholder]

16' x 30' would be huge for two goats! I'd love to have that much barn, and I have four goats plus a borrowed buck at the moment (and a Jersey calf!). I've got a 10' X 18' hay shed that came with the property, and am building an 8' X 24' three-stall goat/calf shed. I have kept three goats with a 12' X 12' shed and a 16' X 16' pen, dry-lot. Now we have a small pasture. You don't want too small a space, because goats beat on each other to establish herd position, and they need to be able to get away from each other. That's why my goat shed will have three stalls, so the dominant one(s) can have a stall and there will still be a place that the less-dominant ones can get into for shelter.

You do need to get at least two goats, as already mentioned, or the one goat WILL be noisy, Nubian or not! Two goats ought to be able to manage just fine with an 8' square shed or pen in a shed, plus at least a 16' square outside pen, if you are bringing all their feed to them. I recommend starting out this way, for two reasons. If you build the pen out of cattle panels (with fence posts at each corner and in the middle, every eight feet), it will give you time to get the rest of your area properly fenced (if you have more land you can use for pasture). It will also give you a pen you can put the goats up in as needed, if you don't want them out in the main pasture. They can live in this size pen indefinitely, especially if you are able to take them out for browsing walks regularly so they get some exercise. (Get bottle-raised goats if you are going to take them for walks, so they'll stay with you -- bottle-babies bond to people; dam-raised don't so much.)

In addition to the space for the goats, you'll need room for a couple of tons of hay (approximately 4' x 8' per ton, in the size bales I buy); space for a milking stand; and space for a feed bin or two and some tools and supplies. Oh, and space for bedding, though my goats generally bed themselves with wasted hay, sigh. If you are going to hand-raise your babies, you'll want a six-by-six or eight-by-eight baby pen. And you would find another eight-by-eight pen or stall handy once in a while, for quarantine, or for a kidding pen, etc.

My goats get mostly alfalfa hay, with some grass hay once in a while (the two kinds are close in price; I mostly use the grass hay for dry does). Milking does get dry COB (corn/oats/barley mixture without molasses -- wet COB has molasses added, which they like but don't need) plus a little Black Oil Sunflower Seeds (BOSS) on the milking stand. I give them as much grain as they can clean up while they are being milked; the one heavy milker gets to stay on the stand and eat while I take the milk pail back to the house and strain the milk before I do the last doe. They also have a salt/mineral mix high in copper available. I add diatomaceous earth to their grain once in a while; it's good for them (I think more for the mineral supplement than as a wormer), but they don't care for it much. I think I'm going to try mixing a little bit with their salt/mineral (which is loose -- goats don't get enough to meet their needs from a block). Don't give goats cattle mineral with urea in it, as urea isn't good for them. Horse mineral will work if you can't find a goat mineral locally. Just make sure it's got high levels of copper. Some people still think that goats are like sheep -- copper is toxic to sheep, and they used to think it was toxic to goats, too. Low copper levels for goats will cause all kinds of health problems.

Goats absolutely need clean fresh water available. If the water container is inside their pen, this is hard to manage, as they will poop and pee in the water bucket. It's best to have a slot or hole in the fence that they can stick their heads through, and put the water outside their pen. They'll still foul it to some extent, but it will stay clean longer. The black rubber buckets are best if you live where it freezes in the winter, as you can just bash the buckets against a tree or something to break the ice out -- it doesn't damage the buckets to do this.

Kinds of goats -- find out what is being raised in your area, and buy your goats locally, in a breed that's popular there. I like Oberhasli's but when I first got into them, I was the only person within seventy miles who had any! That meant I had no choice but to keep a buck for my does. If you get a breed that's popular in your area, you'll have access to bucks of that breed (hopefully good ones!), and won't have to add buck-keeping to your already-steep learning curve! Of course, if you don't mind cross-breeding, you can get whatever breed of doe you like. Most places, you won't have any trouble finding Nubians or Alpines.

Just do a lot of research before you decide. If possible, take someone experienced with you when you go to look at prospective purchases. Don't buy the first cute face you see! For a beginner, I strongly recommend spending a little more money and getting two does in milk, so you can see their udders. With kids, even with good breeding, you have no idea how their udders are going to look. (I have a couple of very well-bred does with less-than-perfect udders; one isn't terrible but sure wouldn't win any prizes at a show; the other doe has a pendulous udder. She's by far my best milker, and a sweetheart, so for now I keep her, but she's only two years old going on three, and I don't know how long that udder is going to hold up. Hope her daughter has a better udder!) Conformation matters, so study and learn what good conformation looks like. We attended a 4-H fair before buying our first goats (thirty years ago!), and I learned a lot from that, as the judges explain why they are placing the goats the way they do.



Kathleen