EPA taking over private water streams

[dozedotz]

Heads up!
The EPA under the current administration is attempting to enact the agenda that cannot be passed legislatively. Case in point: the agency has proposed a draft rule expanding which waterways are federally protected under the Clean Water Act. Opponents describe the proposal as including "every stream, ditch and seasonal run-off stream on private property."
The EPA says that "all of the water in question is historically covered" and meets the "scientific criteria" because all of these streams contribute to other larger streams and rivers that are federally controlled...they are all connected and should not be under state control. Their current proposed draft is simply to "clarify any misunderstanding and also to save money and resources in the future when the EPA will no longer be forced to do scientific studies of private water streams to determine what is clearly already known by everyone to be part of the run-off system that supports larger and undeniably federal waterways.
We in Missouri thought we had a victory (although we worried it would be temporary) when the BlueWay project was dropped. Well, welcome to our brave new world. The Feds are about to control that little wet weather creek in your backyard which will allow them to control a whole lot more in your little backyard!

[Hollowdweller]

This sounds like right wing spam to me. Can you point me to a link that has a rational description of the issue?

[Alice In TX/MO]

Right wing spam????????

http://cfpub.epa.gov/npdes/cwa.cfm?program_id=45

[dozedotz]

Yes, I can tell you where to go, but it won't be rational...it's the EPA.
Connectivity of Streams and Wetlands to Downstream Waters is the title of the EPA study. Just Google it and you will get all kinds of stuff. Or go directly to the EPA website and there they will tell you that the study confirms that "small streams, even those that only flow at certain times, are connected to and have impact on downstream water. Wetlands, too." This is a paraphrase.
You bet politicians are involved! Up to their eyeballs. Both types. The complaint of the right wing is that the "study" has not been properly vetted, gone through the proper, prescribed channels and is being "rushed through." Sound familiar? Anyone? Anyone?
We knew they were not going to stop when the Blueway failed...they haven't.

[Doug Hodges]

From what I've always understood, they have had control for a very long time. I wanted to build a pond by a spring and I was told I couldn't without a test to see how it affected the water supply in the area. This was 20 years ago.

[Alice In TX/MO]

There is a 'drainage ditch' through our property here in Texas. Used to be a creek. It's controlled by the river authority downstream. We can use the water for irrigating garden crops, but not the pasture.

You just *think* you own water on your land. (unless you live in New Mexico, where you knew about water rights when you bought the place )

[dozedotz]

I think that much of the control of streams and groundwater remains with the States - not the Fed via EPA. However, this new proposed draft will change things dramatically. The Pacific Legal Foundation has written an excellent letter to EPA that outlines those dramatic changes. The letter points out that EPA is seeking to greatly increase their control over the number of and size of the tributaries and wetlands...in direct defiance of Justice Kennedy's majority opinion rendered in Rapanos. EPA plans to include "isolated and low volume streams" way beyond what they control now. They intend to control ground water...period. New Mexico is one of the states that is up in arms about this new plan.
It is my belief based on what I have seen this administration do with healthcare and yesterday's Senate action against 200 years of "settled" procedure that they are not shy or politically reticent to enact any and all items on their agenda. Certainly controlling ground water and therefore private land usage is a very high priority for them. I do not think this is "right wing dementia." It is a stated goal of the left.

[Hollowdweller]

Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO

Right wing spam????????

http://cfpub.epa.gov/npdes/cwa.cfm?program_id=45

That is a link to the clean water act. You are against clean water?

[copperkid3]

Originally Posted by Hollowdweller

That is a link to the clean water act. You are against clean water?

+ + + + + + + + +
are overreaching their authority,

the only comeback forthcoming

is on the same plane as, "It's good to hear you've stopped beating your wife!"

Nobody's wants you to continue, but trying to protest that you haven't, doesn't change

the thoughts of many, that you probably do. Diversionary tactic ill-used and abused.

[dozedotz]

For those people like Hollowdweller who believe that the Federal government having control over your land will result in clean water as opposed to oppressive government, there is no need to contact your congressman. For those of you who think that this is a land grab and illegal usurpation of private rights, please contact your congressman and complain loudly. It is too late for public comment directly to the EPA because this was not news worthy and done very quickly and under the table by folks who believe that public discussion of these matters gets in the way of expediency.

[fishhead]

Most streams and ditches leave a persons property and with it carry anything that has been added to the water hence the need for government to regulate.

[dozedotz]

fishhead repeats that clean water will only be accomplished by government.
One of the questions that should be considered is this: should the EPA which is a non elected FEDERAL entity with a definite leftward bent be the regulator?
That leads to what the Pacific Legal Foundation is saying: EPA is pushing aside the Supreme Court ruling regarding how much federal control is needed vs state and local control AND what exactly constitutes a "serious" enough threat to water to be controlled by anyone except the private property owner.
All of this was already decided by the Supreme Court.
Of course, now that the present administration has taken the DC Circuit court from 4 liberal and 4 conservative justices to whatever number Obama ( 3 more libs at this time) wants by eliminating the filibuster ANYTHING goes.
All of these things are tied together. All of them are "change" that was not anticipated by anyone except politicians and the left.
It needs more discussion than the majority is willing to allow...or has allotted time. To say that this is not a power grab is silly. To say that you agree with it is certainly your right.
Again, if you do not agree, contact your representative. It may not stop what is happening because the courts are certainly writing legislation through their rulings, BUT it is your right for the time being and needs to be exercised or you certainly will lose it.

[Pony]

Dozedotz, the Truth Farmer was posting about this a few months back when all that Blueway stuff was happening.

I thought that it was over in MO, but I reckon they're not going to give up.

For those naysayers, please do not dismiss out-of-hand those of us who have looked into it. This has as much to do with clean water as the Right to Farm legislation (aka Monsanto Protection Act) has to do with farming. Do the research before you start calling names.

And if you won't do your own research and thinking, then kindly refrain from commenting.

[SkeeterBlue]

EPA needs to be disbanded.

[Doug Hodges]

Kinda off topic but all this reminded me that I'm ready for SHTF. Are you? Ammo, waster, food and a plan?

[fishhead]

Without government regulation who is going to insure that our water quality remains high? Some property owners do a great job or maintaining buffers and controlling runoff but some don't.

I don't like the government telling me what I can and cannot do especially when it's bureacratic but it's better than no regulation.

[Pony]

The EPA has far over-stepped its boundaries, as has the government.

We don't need government regulation. We need responsible people who will hold others responsible.

Local regulation? Fine. Federal regulation? No way. Feds only create self-perpetuating monolithic alphabet agencies, that exist only to keep themselves alive, i.e. parasitic bureaucracy.

[Nancy_in_GA]

Originally Posted by Pony

We need responsible people who will hold others responsible.

Good luck. It only takes one irresponsible person. How we gonna do this?

[Pony]

Originally Posted by Nancy_in_GA

Good luck. It only takes one irresponsible person. How we gonna do this?

It starts with one person.

I am sorry, but why do you feel the need to be so cynical? It's an honest question. If you take the attitude that only an invasive, over-reaching, bloated govt (which is, in itself, pollution) can handle it, how in the world can any alternate ideas work?

[dozedotz]

Obviously I agree with Pony and others about the federal government. I think many people who vote to give more control to the government truly believe that the government is the only entity that will be able to "cure" whatever it is that ails us. But experience by now should show us that that just isn't the case. I have worked for the government. It is stilting, definitely not creative, self-serving, encourages really poor work ethics and is generally very, very condescending toward the ordinary citizen. If you have ever been unfortunate enough to be under the thumb of government, you know what I am talking about. Goat people with whom I am personally acquainted are usually the opposite of what I just described...energetic, hard working, creative to a fault (!), very helpful and willing to assist their neighbor AND independent (by GOD!). Freedom does not come free is a common saying that usually makes us think of those who serve in the military and guard us from our enemies. But it should also apply to how well we as individuals guard our rights and freedoms from the flim flam man who insists that he just wants to take over and run the King's forest or the King's water or the King's air so that we who are too stupid to accomplish the same thing are not bothered with the additional work when we are sooooo busy! BEWARE any politician or bureaucratic agency that says they are on the public's side. They are not. They are on the side of "controlling" the public to their idea of a more perfect world...and that world serves THEM. Period.