17 out of 18 Negative

Doug Hodges · #1 10/04/13, 01:05 PM

I just tested for CAE. I had 17 out of 18 test negative. I have one doe that tested positive. She is a beautiful doe with Lakeshore and High Timber Breeding. She will be a first Freshener as a 2 year old. She is registered and bred to a registered buck. I talked to Susie about how to prevent the kids from catching it. I will be there for the birth and remove the kids and wash them and dry them immediately before they get to eat. I will dry her up immediately. After seeing her kids, I will make the decision whether or not to Keep her or cull her. I doubt she will ever show symptoms. What would you do?

Doug Hodges · #2 10/04/13, 01:09 PM

This is her. The next pic is the buck she is bred to.

17 out of 18 Negative-imageuploadedbytapatalk1380910132.157071.jpg

17 out of 18 Negative-imageuploadedbytapatalk1380910164.456970.jpg

**mygoat** · #3 10/04/13, 01:13 PM

Managed properly, CAE is not the end of the world.

I think you'll do fine with your plan. While not LIKELY, it is *POSSIBLE* for does to transmit CAE horizontally within the herd. Me, I'd probably let her raise a son, wether it, and keep them together separate from the rest of the herd. You can still breed the doe, just catch kids and raise the kids on CAE prevention. Plan on keeping any and all kids out of her until they have at least a couple CAE negative tests.

CJBegins · #4 10/04/13, 01:14 PM

That sucks but you can use her milk for humans and other animals besides goats. She sure is a beauty.

KSALguy · #5 10/04/13, 01:42 PM

is there any chance its a false positive?

Doug Hodges · #6 10/04/13, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSALguy

is there any chance its a false positive?

I doubt it. I sent it to a second lab to confirm. Both labs said positive. However, I will test her again in 45 days. The first lab is doing it for free.

Tim D Pruitt · #7 10/04/13, 02:24 PM

No! CAE is not the end of the world but it is a serious threat to the health and vitality of your herd. You are to be complimented for being diligent to test and doing your part for preventing the spread of this disease. From the pictures, the doe's knees already are looking enlarged in my opinion. I would keep her separated from the herd in a pen of her own with a wether for company as horizontal transmission is possible. By keeping careful records of the breeding date you can induce her at a convenient time. Some CAE does have hard udders and little or no milk while others don't seem to be affected. Some CAE animals can live a normal life and never show symptoms of the disease - however that is not true in the majority of cases.

Tim D Pruitt
www.pruittvillefarms.com

**mygoat** · #8 10/04/13, 04:33 PM

Just out of curiosity - what did her breeder say when you informed them? Was there any health guarantees with her or did you buy her without testing and from an untested herd?

Doug Hodges · #9 10/04/13, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mygoat

Just out of curiosity - what did her breeder say when you informed them? Was there any health guarantees with her or did you buy her without testing and from an untested herd?

I didn't get a health guarantee. I did ask the questions before I purchased and was told she came from a tested herd. The girl I got her from had bought her from the breeder. When I told her she was surprised and asked about one of the others I had bought from her. She had fed raw milk to all the kids from this particular doe. Luckily for her she was negative.

**mygoat** · #10 10/04/13, 07:05 PM

Wow - she fed raw milk out of THAT doe to her kid crop? If you bought one of those doelings, don't trust her neg test completely - retest in 6 months, you might be suprised. I'd consider her very suspect until you get another neg test back.

Unless you want to keep a buckling, I'd just let her raise her sons for meat every year and pull daughters at birth. That will be easiest on you and her. But the first year I suggest keeping back a wether to keep with her, and building her own pen. A calf hutch would be fine for her and a couple companions.

Doug Hodges · #11 10/04/13, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mygoat

Wow - she fed raw milk out of THAT doe to her kid crop? If you bought one of those doelings, don't trust her neg test completely - retest in 6 months, you might be suprised. I'd consider her very suspect until you get another neg test back.

Unless you want to keep a buckling, I'd just let her raise her sons for meat every year and pull daughters at birth. That will be easiest on you and her. But the first year I suggest keeping back a wether to keep with her, and building her own pen. A calf hutch would be fine for her and a couple companions.

No. I bought three does from her. She fed raw milk from a different doe. They are all going on 2 years old. Only one was bred and it wasn't this one.

punchiepal · #12 10/04/13, 07:23 PM

Doug,
Are you planning on dam raising the rest of the herd's kids? If so, then separating her would protect the rest of the kids from snagging a drink from her and becoming infected.

Doug Hodges · #13 10/04/13, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by punchiepal

Doug,
Are you planning on dam raising the rest of the herd's kids? If so, then separating her would protect the rest of the kids from snagging a drink from her and becoming infected.

Actually I'm playing that by ear. I haven't decided for sure. I know I plan to dry her up immediately. It's a shame. I bought 18 goats and most were from untested herds. The only one that I wasn't worried about and was supposed to be tested came back positive. I had several others I was worried about and had already told my wife that we would be culling them if they came back positive.

Cannon_Farms · #14 10/04/13, 07:40 PM

Doug, I have to agree with Tim, I dont know if you are familar with his herd but he is one breeder I do have the up most respect for. I can say I personally dont believe its worth the headache for more than one or two kiddings and if you miss are your wife and kids going to be ok with you having those kids butchered? I do think her knees are already telling a story and if they get worse you probably wont get more than a kidding or two out of her anyway. This is a personal choice to if you have the time and guts to deal with the consequences if your plans fail. I wouldnt go though that there is too many fine goats out there, though shes not a bad looking doe at all its not like shes the SCGH from heaven. Please make sure you get proof of testing always, it actually concerns me if people dont ask about the paperwork.

Doug Hodges · #15 10/04/13, 07:49 PM

Hmmm. I'm going to look at the knees tomorrow. I've not noticed that in her except in this pic. The ones that I was worried about that actually have swollen looking knees came back negative. Maybe I've overlooked that in her. Thanks. I'll check that out. Why couldn't it be the $100 dollar doe? Not the $500 dollar one!!!

Frosted Mini's · #16 10/04/13, 09:12 PM

I would raise all of your kids at least this year on CAE prevention-heat-treated colostrum and pasteurized milk, since they were from untested herds and you have some that seem suspicious. Wait until you get at least a couple of negative tests out of them to dam-raise or use any raw milk on them.

Doug Hodges · #17 10/04/13, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frosted Mini's

I would raise all of your kids at least this year on CAE prevention-heat-treated colostrum and pasteurized milk, since they were from untested herds and you have some that seem suspicious. Wait until you get at least a couple of negative tests out of them to dam-raise or use any raw milk on them.

This is what I need to do. I'm set up for it now. It's the reason I added so much space to my barn. I need to order the buckets from Caprine supply to feed multiple kids. I really want to be able to say I have a clean herd. The girl from bio tracking did say she could still be negative and since I tested only a week apart by both labs the same thing that made her positive at one lab could also be making her positive at another lab. I'll test again in a couple months.

wannalive · #18 10/05/13, 01:16 AM

http://fiascofarm.com/goats/cae.htm just thought this link would possibly be helpful.. I an far from a goat expert, but I think I am liking the natural approach... I don't know though.. maybe it just don't work.. but anyway.. worth a read...

**mygoat** · #19 10/05/13, 10:00 AM

That's one of FiasCo farm's articles that I believe is a bunch of hooey.

There are many on their site that I don't particularly like, and it IS really outdated now. Many of their articles especially about kidding, disbudding etc are GREAT - but their medical (drug) stuff is not good - they didn't use it, thus they didn't have working knowledge. Same with CAE - they didn't do prevention, and justified why not. I don't think they even tested and in that article they cast distrust on testing methods when the ELISA REALLY IS very good at what it does - now, there are reasons for false positives/false negatives BUT it is NOT because of the test. As I've said a bajillion times, one test is not definitive, and all test MUST be interpreted properly. With multiple tests and superb biosecurity, your risk is VERY low and you *can* say you have a clean herd.

Doug, I'd buy ONE of the buckets and then copy it at home (buy lotsa extra nipples - those things are handy! REALLY easy to do! We actually use 5 gallon buckets because we don't use the holder and thus, the bucket is too short for kids. We even have to put the 5 gallon bucket up on a cinder block. We just hold the bucket - it takes them just a couple minutes to suck it all down.

With a ton of kids it gets hectic and recently I've thought of getting the holder - they're obnoxious about jumping onto the bucket in their excitement.

Doug Hodges · #20 10/05/13, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wannalive

http://fiascofarm.com/goats/cae.htm just thought this link would possibly be helpful.. I an far from a goat expert, but I think I am liking the natural approach... I don't know though.. maybe it just don't work.. but anyway.. worth a read...

I've scanned that before but this is the first time I actually read it. CAE is as clear as mud. To me it sounds like a CAE positive goat could he a super goat with extreme resistance or it could be just a matter of time before symptoms begin to show. If we pull kids immediately we could be depriving the kids of the super antibodies and deprive ourselves of producing the "super" herd. Or we could be saving the kids from contracting a disease that could debilitate them or kill them.