SO How "bad" is a Buck anyway? and future new goat owner queries

CAjerseychick · #1 09/11/13, 02:34 PM

After reading thru and still trying to recover from the goat banding thread(!) --
just wondering -- several(other threads) have made comments about how Bucks are not for novices--
I know they are Stinky, can be aggressive...
but what are the particulars?

We are looking at a registered pygmy doe with all her health testings (CAE, CL and the other thing- Johns'?) and clearances and she is pregnant from another registered pygmy buck...
I thought mama and her new kid would be a nice way to start out with goats-- we plan on keeping them in our chicken yard out back from our garage (and partially under our porch ramp -its dry and sheltered there and the dryer vents out into it so pretty warm too)--
Also I want kinders but have no luck so am contemplating "making" my own...
SO how bad would a pygmy buck be? (I would get a Nubian kid in the spring)...
we do have 3 dogs, 2 of which will need to become accustomed to goats, only the Schnauzer will be an issue I think as the Berner wont hurt anything....

**mygoat** · #2 09/11/13, 03:04 PM

They need a goat alcatraz to live in. Preferably without sharing a fenceline with does. This is to reduce the risk of through fence breedings (rare) and bucks/does breaking in the other pen for undesireable breeding times (SUPER DUPER OFTEN!) You don't want your young doelings bred to young or anticipated breedings ruined by desparate hormonal goats.

They need to be put in their place. Handle them as LIVESTOCK, not as a pet. Depending on the breed, they may be bigger than you and think they're badder than you - convince them otherwise. I'm outweighed by my bucks but they respect me for the most part (hormones make them stupid on occassion). I'm not afraid to whallop them, knock them over and sit on them, or otherwise retaliate if they do ANYTHING I don't like. Even a 100lb pygmy buck could be seriously bad news - break bones, tear ligaments in knees - if they think they can get away with being mean. I warn all my goats with a strong hand and a 'behave or die' warning.

DEHORNED. I *hate* my horned boer buck. HATE his stupid horns. The ones with horns KNOW They can be mean and destructive. He butts his house, ruins fences, threatens me, and because he has a 'helmet', he creates a huge scab on the entire top of the head of my alpine buck who is dehorned.

NOT having your buck is a HUGE inconvenience and was never feasible for me. Finding a disease free buck within driving distance, reliably be able to detect heats, and then have to cart the does to the buck at the drop of the hat and hope the breeders' schedule and your schedule line up for the 24hr heat period - yeah right. It's just not feasible for most people.

BUT - I will say that they do need particular management. Never turn your back on the sweetest buck. We don't allow anybody but myself and my father in the buck pen. No small children.

CAjerseychick · #3 09/11/13, 03:19 PM

Ok so no greater than a pygmy buck it is (100 lbs really, i thought they were teeney). And dehorned. (was thinking horns might be good for predators and teaching the dogs a lesson)... We do have a little corner on the back side of the property that is half way fenced off already, but then I would worry about the bear eating the Buck... but that is a ways off)...
And yes I wanted my own buck to avoid the hassle of find a clean one, and transport.....
Hmmmm
I did go visit the bucks as a kid, we lived next to a goat dairy, and I guess I wasnt supervised very well, I loved scratching and loving on them in their pens (I would reach over the gate I wasnt that stupid to enter)...even though they were stinky...

**mygoat** · #4 09/11/13, 03:47 PM

You will need a wether friend for your buck. No goat should live alone. A wether is mostly worthless but is necessary to keep a buck company. You can also use him to keep newly purchased goats company while in biosecurity isolation - that way if the new goats are sick and he gets it, you're only out a wether.

As for pygmy buck - up to you.

Personally, I wouldn't ruin a good dairy nubian doe by bringing in pygmy genetics. Yuck. Kidding problems, tiny teats, short lactations, and odd proportions. Plus they're mostly bred for pets, so growth rate hasnt' been a consideration for generations - so even though they're considered a 'meat breed', they're generally not very good at it.

Alice In TX/MO · #5 09/11/13, 04:05 PM

Goat horns aren't enough to deter predators, unfortunately, and a head butt is good enough to teach gentle domestic dogs a lesson.

CAjerseychick · #6 09/11/13, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mygoat

You will need a wether friend for your buck. No goat should live alone. A wether is mostly worthless but is necessary to keep a buck company. You can also use him to keep newly purchased goats company while in biosecurity isolation - that way if the new goats are sick and he gets it, you're only out a wether.

As for pygmy buck - up to you.

Personally, I wouldn't ruin a good dairy nubian doe by bringing in pygmy genetics. Yuck. Kidding problems, tiny teats, short lactations, and odd proportions. Plus they're mostly bred for pets, so growth rate hasnt' been a consideration for generations - so even though they're considered a 'meat breed', they're generally not very good at it.

Can you still eat the Nubian bucklings? I mean how meaty are they....

dozedotz · #7 09/11/13, 05:47 PM

We have owned both Pygmy and Nubian bucks. We also owned them as novices. The Pygmy was quite a handsome fellow and was used for the purpose of producing Kinders. We sold him when we decided to go all Nubian (we just liked the Nubians better...others will feel very differently about that...it REALLY is just a personal preference). He was a doll and extremely well bred and handsome...he was selected as the breeding buck for the St. Louis Zoo when they switched to all Pygmy goats in their Petting Zoo. Anyway, he loved me, would walk on his leash in perfect form and never presented any problems. He hated my husband and managed without horns to wound my dear man several times! Never think that a small buck cannot be dangerous...but that does not mean that any buck of any size is automatically a demon either! You have to KNOW the animal and then you have to understand that when in rut a buck can be a force to reckon with...or not...it really does depend on the buck(s). The two Nubian bucks (weighing in at about 200 pounds each as yearlings) we presently own are very gentle...even in rut as they are at present. I am very aware that they are two powerful boys whenever I am around them, but I do not feel FEAR! If you know what I mean. They have not ever exhibited any aggression toward either my husband or me. They loved being petted (stinky!!!) and would definitely climb into our laps if we allowed it. They are young...but so was our Pygmy boy! I agree that all goats need company...a wether or another buck who can actually be used for some different genes are good choices. Keeping them separate from the does, small children (good idea no matter what sex, age, style of animal you own) is a good plan to avoid complications of unplanned matings or real trouble. We have always operated a closed herd and would always choose to have our own bucks. We would not loan out our bucks or do driveway breedings...all due to health concerns for the animals.

On a different note, I am very grateful to Mygoat for her knowledge and willingness to share it!! HOWEVER, I strongly disagree that Pygmy goats are any kind of "waste" or that Kinders are, too! Just my opinion.
Finally, we have butchered both Nubian and Kinder bucklings. The Kinders are much meatier, but the Nubians were fine and we continue to butcher them now that we do not have Kinders. We butcher at about 6 months of age. We use Emily Dixon's method and it works fine...see Emily's instructions at top of Home page if you need assistance.

Otter · #8 09/11/13, 08:31 PM

I adore my buck. I really, really love him. I'm lucky in just what a great big marshmallow he is, but I also believe that it's not all inborn, he's had LOTS of training from us in how to behave, and we're doing harness training as well.
Since I'm feeding him year'round, he ought to work for more than 5 minutes!

He did go through an obnoxious phase at about 7 -9 months, but you should expect any adolescent to feel out there boundaries. Twice I pulled his feet out from under him and sat on him till he decided it was easier just to behave. it was actually easier than it would have been with a smaller goat, and with the little goats, like with little dogs, the temptation is to just brush it off until they're full grown and really obnoxious.
But don't let it scare you off - at no point was he ever as bad as when my doe decided she was all grown up and was NOT going to let me trim her hooves anymore.

Now that he's grown and knows we're partners, he's just my buddy. He's like having another dog - but it was less work to train him.

The only area where having buck is hard is, as others mentioned, fence. I'm having fall kids because not only bucks, but does will climb fences that they can't jump to get to their true love. Electric AND cattle panels ... and maybe a moat

And here is a picture of one of this year's buck kids. He's from well bred parents who come from good sized lines and is 3 and a half months old in the pic.
As you can see, a good Nubian is a growthy, chunky animal. They were originally dual purpose, tri purpose if you count packing.

But like any common breed, lines become very important. If you want meaty Nubians, there are plenty out there, just not every Nubian you see.

Awnry Abe · #9 09/11/13, 09:07 PM

If it weren't for rut, I'd love to hang out with our Boer buck all the time. 10 months out of the year he is a sweetheart. But any contact with him this time of year means instant shower and laundry. He has horns--big nasty ones. He weighs almost as much a I do. If I go into his pen mindlessly, no matter the season, I will quickly find one of those horns up the front side of my crotch, and one up the back side. He is not suited for the
FFA petting zoo. No visitors. No wife. No horror stories. But he fears and respects me. He gets manhandled because of those horns. When he gets to close for comfort, he quickly finds himself on his back--and also gets a nice soothing belly rub to make up. My favorite prop is a loose leather glove. If I am sporting one of those, he keeps about 10 feet away. A sharp rap in the face with a glove must be very unpleasant.

On the one hand, bucks are a nuisance. They need their own pen and handling. They stink and can be aggressive. They beat the tar out of my gates and fences. They need a wether. On the other hand, they seem to be generally healthier than the does and kids. When you come home from work and see a doe wagging her tail in his general direction, it sure is nice to let her in her pen for a bit and take advantage of that very narrow window of opportunity.

In my opinion, buck ownership is mandatory, unless you have access to one on a moment's notice. Just never take their mild-manners for granted, and don't be afraid to go alpha on them.

CAjerseychick · #10 09/11/13, 09:21 PM

OK thanx you guys, I am interested in Bucks and probably will try it out.... (nice to know that about the leather glove we usually have one handy...) Hmmm we are def going to have to get started on better fencing for the buck pen though....
We dream of our own meat.... but the dual purpose issue is.... to hedge against a failure to butcher (I did look at the butchering sticky but we dont own a gun...)....
Milk would be a nice back up plan but I have to get DH to be back up for DD (who, ever since the whole Hunger Games series came out, is wild to make goat cheese) who would be my backup on the 3 days a week I am out of town....
There seems to be alot of Nubian breeders in the area, and a fair number of pygmies too... hence the kinder idea....

Oh and DH is sold on the whole goats as weedeaters idea as all the brush and berry brambles he cut back last year... is growing back in nicely....

hiddensprings · #11 09/11/13, 09:26 PM

At one time I had two Boer Bucks, one Angora Buck, and a Nubian Buck. Oh, and I did have a little Nigerian Buck for a few months, but kept tripping over him because he was so small compared to everyone else on my place.

I only had trouble with one of the Boer bucks and it wasn't that he was aggressive. He just try to treat me like I was a goat. Wanted to play, headbutt, jump on me, etc. I misjudged one day when I was going out of the gate and he hit me square in the back. (I know, my mistake for turning my back on him.....I was in a hurry) Anyways, he went to a new home the next morning.
That is really the only trouble I've ever had other then keeping my boys where they are supposed to be this time of year. I keep cattle panels around their area and never, never, let the girls anywhere near them until I say its OK for lov'in.

My boys aren't too stinky (or I've just gotten use to it) Honestly, I think the bucks on my place have the best job around. They work 2 months a year and then lay around for the other 10 months. lol

CAjerseychick · #12 09/11/13, 10:16 PM

OK I was going to research this ... but this is faster-- so bucks only rut in the fall?( I thought pygmies were less seasonal?)...

anita_fc · #13 09/11/13, 11:38 PM

My pygmy bucks go in and out of rut pretty much year round depending on the proximity of the does, but late summer through fall it is pretty steady.

Anita Crafton
Dan-Ani Pygmy Goats
Hansen, Idaho

CAjerseychick · #14 09/12/13, 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anita_fc

My pygmy bucks go in and out of rut pretty much year round depending on the proximity of the does, but late summer through fall it is pretty steady.

Anita Crafton
Dan-Ani Pygmy Goats
Hansen, Idaho

Ok that is good to know...

Whisperwindkat · #15 09/12/13, 07:18 AM

A lot of it depends on the buck. Our buck is a big teddy bear, but we trained him from a baby in what is and is not acceptable behavior. He is very courteous, polite and gentle even in rut. However, when I was a kid my granddaddy had 2 bucks to clear some of the underbrush in the woods. One of those bucks was the devil incarnate. His main mission in life was to try and kill the humans and there wasn't a fence that could hold him when he was going after somebody. When he pinned my cousin and I on top of the bulldozer and was coming after us my grandaddy shot him. It was the memories of that buck that made me think long and hard about really wanting goats. I hated goats until I got my herd and found out that they weren't all like that. Blessings, Kat

**mygoat** · #16 09/12/13, 09:16 AM

They BREED any time of the year (don't need rut to breed) BUT - the rut is a late summer to midwinter thing.

CAjerseychick · #17 09/12/13, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mygoat

They BREED any time of the year (don't need rut to breed) BUT - the rut is a late summer to midwinter thing.

Oh wow, the best of both worlds then I guess....between the breeding and the rutting I guess thats about all they "Do"....

Hollowdweller · #18 09/13/13, 09:33 AM

My bucks (saanens) are all nice, easy to keep in.

However if you can locate a buck near you I think that you are better off doing that.

It's not so much that bucks are hard to keep in it's just that I think people get them as soon as they get goats and they really aren't even ready to fully house and care for the does yet.

CAjerseychick · #19 09/13/13, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollowdweller

My bucks (saanens) are all nice, easy to keep in.

However if you can locate a buck near you I think that you are better off doing that.

It's not so much that bucks are hard to keep in it's just that I think people get them as soon as they get goats and they really aren't even ready to fully house and care for the does yet.

That sounds about right, it was just that if we get a pregnant doe I was trying to decide what to do if the kid is a buckling.... maybe wether him (eek that banding thread) and keep him for company...