Possible bloat? I'm not sure

mamaC11 · #1 08/27/13, 11:47 AM

Hi all. We acquired an oberhasli buckling this year. He and his friends that we got were more "rescue" animals than anything. They have been in a pen by themselves away from our other 2 goats, wormed with cydectin and pyrantel, (sorry if I spelled those wrong). I have dimethox being shipped to me.

This little guy is supposed to be about 5-6 months old, he was very scrawny when we got him, but with good hay and some feed started doing well. His lids were very pale when we purchased him, but now have a good pink color to them. For the last 2 days he's just been slow and quiet. He's normally very vocal and friendly. He just stands around. He will browse, but not vigorously. No teeth grinding. I thought he was dead when I went out this morning as he was laying down and not even moving. I ran to him, he was alive but just slow and not wanting to move at all. I got him up, and could feel what I am guessing is a gas pocket on his left side behind his rib cage. I gave him some baking soda and a little vegetable oil and probios. Also, his poop is pellets, but they seem dry. He's had no grain for a while now (i guess about a week...he was on Noble Goat), free access to fresh hay and water. We use Replamin. Another thing--since he has been so weak these past 2 days we tether him to a grassy spot to browse while we are outside with him--our terrain is really steep and hard to maneuver so we want to keep him close. Both days he has lost his footing, slipped, rolled over on his back and could not get up. Since we were with him each time, we were able to upright him quickly. I need to get a temp on him still, that is one thing I haven't done. One more thing...his belly seems big and is hard as a drum. Any thoughts?

WildernesFamily · #2 08/27/13, 01:03 PM

I wouldn't even try hazard a guess, but maybe this article will help you decide if it is bloat or not, and what to do if you decide it is:

http://fiascofarm.com/goats/bloat.htm

mamaC11 · #3 08/27/13, 01:03 PM

temp: 102.5

mamaC11 · #4 08/27/13, 06:12 PM

after being with him all day I believe it is bloat. I was able to rub his belly and get 2 long burps out, but he still feels squishy in his rumen area (behind his ribs, up high) like I'm rubbing an air pocket. Please, someone, would you mind helping? I"m not sure what all to do.

Backfourty,MI. · #5 08/27/13, 06:25 PM

Get about 1/4 cup baking soda down him. make it into a paste is easiest. Also Mineral oil is better to give them than vegatable oil if you have it but if not then use the vegatable oil & give him about 1/4 cup. Be careful he swallows it & you don't get it in his lungs.

Is he up to date on his CD & T shots? If not I would also give him a shot of C & D ANTITOXIN, 20 cc SQ, not the toxoid that you use for their vaccines.

Walk him as much as possible & rub his sides vigorously & hard, enough to get more air out.

mamaC11 · #6 08/27/13, 07:30 PM

I've probably gotten close to 1/4 cup of baking soda down him this evening. i've been reading about 2 different types of bloat...dry and foamy. how do I tell the difference?

I do not think he received any vaccines prior to us getting him. He was in such poor shape and we were throwing so much at him that we overlooked that one

and I can't find CD Antitoxin anywhere near me. I'll have to order it too, but I'm afraid it won't get here quick enough. I got some more long burps out of him.

For frothy bloat I've read multiple articles that said to use Tide mixed with water to make his insides not frothy....any thoughts on that? I'm willing to try it, but it seems, well, odd.

CJBegins · #7 08/28/13, 12:03 AM

Don't use tide. The baking soda will neutralize the gases that cause the bloat and the mineral oil will break up the bubbles. Have you tried raising his front legs like having him stand with his front feet on steps while his backfeet are still on the ground? Massage him in that position and the gas can come up easier.

KrisD · #8 08/28/13, 03:27 AM

I would call other goat farms around you and see if someone will sell you a bottle of CDT antitoxin. Also call and ask your vet, most goat vets or livestock vets carry it. Mine just sells me stuff without having to see the animal.
Don't use Tide but do get a fair amount of oil down him.

Backfourty,MI. · #9 08/28/13, 05:49 AM

The C & D Antitoxin is not RX so any large animal vet around you should have it & sell it to you without seeing the animal.

Don't use the tide.
You may have to do the baking soda & mineral oil, 1/4 cup each a couple times over a 12 to 24 hour period.

mamaC11 · #10 08/28/13, 07:39 AM

he's still with me this morning...weaker though. More massaging, a little more burping. Now he has a green discharge coming out of his nose. could it be pneumonia? still no temp, it registered the same as yesterday. will see if I can get my hands on the cd antitoxin today. if you suspect pneumonia, what drugs can i get at TSC or a feed store? there are no goat vets here in my immediate area and only one goat farm that I know of that I've contacted before and pretty much got a "you're on your own"

Backfourty,MI. · #11 08/28/13, 09:19 AM

If I didn't have a goat vet or a way to RX medications & wanted an antibiotic from TSC for pneumonia or other respitory infections I would get the Strongest Penicillin I could get my hands on.

How many times have you given him the oil & baking soda? Have you found the C & D Antitoxin yet? TSC might even have it or another mom/pop type farm store or mill.
Keep walking him around & rubbing his sides.
What about Baby Gas Drops from the store? How much does he weigh?

mamaC11 · #12 08/28/13, 10:21 AM

I got another neaarly 1/4C of baking soda in him this morning. He looked like he wasn't going to make it...so weak he couldn't stand and dehydrated looking. I massaged him and moved him but as soon as we were done he layed back down. That was about an hour ago. I just went out again and he is up, willingly walking around, calling to me!! I cut him some oak branches off and he's eating them. His belly is no where near as swollen or tight and the gas pocket I was massaging so much is nearly gone. I contacted a vet who wouldn't let me purchase the CD antitoxin without a visit. grrr, I considered taking him in but he's seeming much better right now. His nose still has some really runny green stuff...by green I mean cud or replamin color green. And he also now has white discharge coming from his eyes. He's really perplexing me with all these various symptoms. His breathing was labored this morning...i'm assuming from the bloat, but it is much better/normal now. His walk is more steady and I'm so thrilled to hear his sweet voice calling out when he sees me. He's about 45-50lbs. I thought about baby gas drops--i just threw ours out the other day since our youngest is nearly 3 now.

So considering the eye and nose discharge, should I still consider antibiotics? my TSC is fairly close and I also have a mom/pop feed store that has a small selection. I also got the Dimethox today...with all that I've thrown at him and down his throat should I treat for that as well or give his gut a rest? Like I said earlier, he's never had cocci prevention. We've only had them for about 4 weeks now (i'm guessing on this...my mind is exhausted from everything going on). I wanted to treat him and his friends before they got near our other animals as a prevention measure.

Cannon_Farms · #13 08/28/13, 10:32 AM

dry pellets he is not getting enough water and possibly can be blocked with stomach worms. I cant remember what part of Ga you are in but if I remember correctly you are a ways away. If you Pm me your general direction or post on the thread I will see if I know some one that can help you He needs fluids. Have you seen him pee?

Cannon_Farms · #14 08/28/13, 10:35 AM

We use gas x chewables or mylacon drops here I also have bloat release.
I think hes at a point he needs to see a good Goat vet, mine is near Winder, Saanengirl has one near Commerce

mamaC11 · #15 08/28/13, 10:43 AM

I agree Cannon Farms...I'm not making excuses but I can not get him there. I have never in my life hooked up or pulled a trailer. My husband is not here and won't be here for the next few day--probably this weekend.

He has still been urinating. His pellets look much better-larger, more green and plump--i just walked in from watching him pee and poop. I had some electrolytes I mixed up and gave him a little bit of last night and this morning.
I'm in the mountains of GA, north of Dawsonville/Dahlonega area. I'm about 60 miles or more from commerce, maybe 50-60 from winder.

mamaC11 · #16 08/28/13, 10:44 AM

haha, I didn't think of just putting him in the car....hmmm. I'll watch him a bit more, that might be a possibility.

Cannon_Farms · #17 08/28/13, 10:51 AM

I use a shower curtain and towels when they have to ride in the back seat of my truck

I will see if a lady I know in your area has a good goat vet. Mines worth the drive, Saanengirls Father is a goat vet

mamaC11 · #18 08/28/13, 11:24 AM

Spoke with the hubby...he does not want me to put the goat in the car. Not because it is in the car, but because our son is healing from a fracture to his left femur. I would be the only adult with 4 kids and a sick goat. If something whacky were to happen and the goat started bouncing around in the car, my son could very easily be reinjured. Not to mention trying to maneuver him and the goat at the same time...I think I'd have to agree with him.

Cannon_Farms · #19 08/28/13, 11:34 AM

Sub Q fluids are probably needed. If hes that small Im guessing you dont have a crate? If you can get Nikki to help www.smithurmonds.com

KrisD · #20 08/28/13, 12:12 PM

Can a neighbor watch the kids while you take the goat? Or at least the one with the broken leg? My goats have been in my station wagon many times. I put tarps down all the way up the back windows.

He could have viral pneumonia or sometimes when they have frothy bloat when the stomach can no longer hold any more it has to go some where so it goes up. It can come out the nose or mouth and it's usually dark green because it's rumen juice.