What is it about Goats?

[Two Tracks]

Hello Homesteaders, I can't help but notice that the Goat column has 35,000 hits! way way way more hits than any other farm animal on HT! Can you Goat herders tell me "What is it about Goats?"

I'll tell you a bit on where I'm coming from... I raise Sheep and LOVE Sheep. I also milk them after they wean lambs for about 6 weeks to make cheese for family and friends.

I'm thinking that I'd like a milk producing animal with greater yield and duration. I was thinking of getting a "family cow" Jersey type. I think it may "produce" too much milk for our family thou and I really don't want to be tied down to 2x's a day (We go to a lot of shows "vending" and my neighbor wouldn't be able to do this)

This brings me to goats... What can you goat experts tell me about milk goats and which breeds are hardy, easy kidders ect... What are differences in raising sheep and goats? I could house them separately. I'm thinking of the approach in letting the doe's raise the kid's and me "stealing" milk in mornings. That way when we go to the shows my neighbor doesn't have to go above and beyond. Thanks a bunch ~Chris

[Rockytopsis]

Don't know anything about sheep so I can't answer most of your questions.

I have two does I milk in the morning. 1 PB Nubian and 1 3/4 Kiko/Nubian. I am getting 1/2 gallon of milk per day.

With the Nubian, her kids have her all day and I lock them separate at night. The Kiko doe, her kid was sold a month ago and shows no signs of drying up.

I have used my goats in parades, birthday parties, festivals, fund raisers, petting zoos.

Shaq is a wether and very public minded.

[Doug Hodges]

Ive been around both. Seems like the goats have always been more people oriented than the sheep.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Goats have incredible personalities!

[April]

My cows tolerate me if they must. The sheep look at me suspiciously. But... the goats wait for me eagerly, come running up with joyous shouts of greeting and give me a quick hug before they jump up on the stand.

I do twice a day milking with bottle raised kids only because I like bottle babies. I've done "share milking" by locking the kids up all night, milking in the morning and letting the kids have the rest. That worked out just fine. The kids were just less friendly. I'm sure that's fixable with time and attention.

I like keeping the cows for the cream. I sell more cow milk than goat milk if that's a consideration. Personally, I much prefer goat milk but it's slow convincing other people. I've share-milked with the cow as well for once a day milking. That works fine, but they are MUCH harder to wean than goat kids. I currently have a two year old cow that occasionally has to have a session with the weaning ring.

I don't milk the sheep, so I can't comment on that. I can't even imagine being able to convince them to let me milk them.

I do keep everyone together and it all works out fine. Well - the cows can't get down into the "goat yard" due to strategically placed 2x4s blocking the lane, but they all share pasture/woods space. The goats would never go into shelter if the cows were in there. Cows are apparently demon-possessed and must be avoided by all self-respecting goats.

I top dress the goat mineral on the milk stand and leave sheep mineral out free choice because of the copper requirements of goats and the toxicity of it to sheep.

[WildernesFamily]

I'm not very active on the goat forum, but we have goats (and have Jersey cows and had pigs in the past.)

Goats are so personable! Like was mentioned, they come running for joy when they hear you coming, lean in for scratches, stand with their eyes closed enjoying a particularly good scratch, or like my daughter's Sadie goat, stand with her head propped against you, leaning into you, just loving on you.

Other animals will also come running if they think you're bringing food, but won't hang around much once the food is gone. Goats will stick around and visit.

Other animals will merely tolerate you.. but goats are lovable.

And goats are much easier to milk than cows

[KareninPA]

My goats are my favorite entertainment. They make me laugh every day! The babies 10 times more!

[Backfourty,MI.]

I can't imagine not having our goats! They really just make my day!
Our goats all know there name & come when we whistle from where every they are. Like the others have said they are very personable.

They don't eat as much or take up as much space plus they are easier to clean up after.

We raise mini nubians & I love the milk, these are in between a nigerian & a standard size goat so a medium size & easy to milk.
Ours are easy kidders but like any other animal a complication can arise or something that needs our help.

I do like Rockytopsis & milk just once a day. I dam raise but 1 doe I'm milking I've already weaned her kids & I'm getting over 2 quarts each morning with once a day milkings. Not sure if others consider that good or not but I am very happy with it.
Getting ready to start separating another does' kids at night & milk her in the morning too. Then I'll turn her kids back in with her for the day.

[CraterCove]

I swear my goats have just as much personality as my dogs. I really do value my milkers and my favorite buck just as much as my dogs. They are so fun and they want to be around us. When we go out and just sit in the yard, whichever ones are out come and visit... I even have a lap goat this year-- though it won't be so cute when she's 150 lbs instead of 60lbs.

I have such limited experience with sheep I couldn't really give you a comparison of the two species.

[Clovers_Clan]

I don't have sheep, this is just knowledge gained from research...

-Goats and sheep compliment each other beautifully in pasture management. When rotation grazing, put the goats out first. They'll browse the tops and eat things the sheep won't. Follow up with sheep, they'll crop it low, eating grass the goats won't eat. Helps keep pastures dry reducing worm load. Should reduce species specific parasites for both but possibly not non-specific parasites.

-Never nurse orphan lambs on surrogate does. Lambs are too rough and can damage a doe's udder.

-Sheep are relatively easy to fence. Goats are nearly impossible! Do your research on best methods.

-Copper is toxic to sheep. Goats must have plenty to remain healthy. If you are keeping both together, copper bolusing is your best bet.

I love my goats. They have wonderful, quirky personalities!

[Pony]

My goats and sheep are never complimentary to each other. In fact, they call each other names, and taunt each other.

Srsly, they ARE complementary. I have both, and while I do separate them at feeding time (they can all be such pigs!), they do well. Goats eat the browse, sheep eat lower growing stuff - although they will both sample each others' fare and comment on it. We haven't had parasite issues, but then, we're new to this land. We try to move them all around to keep things good.

Copper is not toxic to sheep. EXCESS copper, however, is toxic to them. Problem is, I've yet to find exactly how much is enough, so I err on the side of caution.

I've found it no more difficult to fence goats than sheep, but my goats seem to believe that 4' welded wire is the equivalent of Fort Knox. I'm not about to tell them otherwise.

I love my goats to bits and pieces, but sheep are easier.

[PrettyPaisley]

I was so sad when I couldn't convince my cow to love me. I tried and tried, even slept in the pasture with her-but she just doesn't have it in her.

Goats I was *immediately* in love with. It's their personalities for sure. That and the fact that, unlike a dog, they do not lick their butts-so you can give and receive kisses without any worries. But I know less than nothing about sheep (other than how tasty lamb is) - but if they have a personality like a cow, I'm sticking with goats !

[ozark_jewels]

Goats are just........awesome! But, I will warn you that some people find that they love sheep and can't tolerate goats. And some people love goats and can't tolerate sheep. I'm pretty much in the latter group. Though young lambs are adorable and I love to eat lamb! I usually raise a couple sheep wethers a year to round out my freezer full of goat and beef.

I highly reccomend Lamanchas for a "no-fuss" type dairy goat. Of course there are always exceptions, but usually they are hardy, quiet, calm and very loving. They milk well, are easy to find in most areas, and I just love them.

Will also say that *some* cows are very loving and personable. Especially some Jerseys. I've got a couple that will follow me around with their nose in my back pocket. And no, they do not get treats either! But others are just as happy only to see you at milking time.
If you find that goats are not for you, you can get a lower-producing Jersey(2-4 gallons a day), put a couple calves on her and only milk her in the mornings as you are speaking of doing with the goats. Or leave them together 24/7 while you are away and not milk her at all. She will give you milk and raise your healthy beef. Cows can also be milked once a day later in lactation as can goats.
All can be pastured together with no issues.

[cfuhrer]

A little bit about where I am coming from.

I raised Nubian dairy goats, my sister raised Suffolk sheep.
I had ten head max, she had fifty.
We never left a kid on the does, we tried to never bottle raise a lamb.
Milk from the goats went to make cheese, butter, and feeding piglets and bottle lambs/kids; kids were sold for meat.
Lambs were sold as club lambs.

We ran all of them together, they ate the same feeds, they got the same vaccinations, and the same trace minerals.

I agree with many of the observations above including how they treat forage differently and the fencing needs.

I have milked both and found goats to be very much easier; I have fairly large hands so those tiny sheep teats were a pain, also goats tend to stand more still. I would much rather shed out a goat than sheer a sheep.

In my experience the major difference is in ease of handling. Teach a goat something (like to go to the milk stand every morning) and they will follow that routine to their dying day; sheep need to be taught the same thing over and over as though every day were a new day.

Typically if you can get a hand on a goat they will stop. If you get a hand on a sheep you may dislocate your shoulder when they run right over you.

Sheep come when there is food involved, a goat will come just to see what you're up to and say hi.

Each goat has its own personality, whereas in a herd of sheep you might have a handful of standouts but the personalities are fairly homogeneous.

Now, I know, I am biased for goats and a little bit against sheep. But I think you will find a lot of utility and a lot of fun and enjoyment from integrating a few goats into your herd.

As for goats versus cows, I"m fairly evenly split. But I think if you just want some milk a goat would do better than a cow. Also, if you want meat utility there will be less investment and a shorter turnaround in getting a goat kid to the freezer versus a calf (one season versus two).

Internet disclaimer: this is just in my experience, your mileage may (and probably will) vary.

[Two Tracks]

Thank you all for your perspectives...you all are really making me have the " I wants! " I love personality in animals (and folks)

I've had this notion that in keeping goats with sheep that they are going to be hard on the fences and make a way for all the sheep to escape! (my biggest nightmare fear) I'm thinking goats could run with sheep in day and be housed separately at night for "special" mineral/copper intake and ease of morning milking.

The feed issue of goats being browsers...Do I follow behind the county clearing crew and load up my truck with branches? They will live on a pasture based system without shrubs, what do you do for providing that woody fiber? what type of hay and grain for healthy system in dairy goats?

I've heard of shared disease's between goats and sheep like Johnne's, Soremouth, CLA, CAE (like OPP in sheep) and about all the management preventative issues that plague small ruminants. I guess I know my way around the sheep breeders with who is respectable for purchasing from. What is your approach in locating a respectable goat breeder? Thanks ~Chris

[CraterCove]

What is my approach to finding a reputable goat breeder? I look here on this forum first and ask if anyone knows someone good in my area.

[Backfourty,MI.]

Ask here like CraterCove suggested for reputable breeders in your area. Look for disease free & tested, clean herds in the breed that you decide on.

What breed are you thinking of?

[Pony]

If you're looking for stunning personalities, you can't go wrong with Nubians. They are LOADED with personality.

I'm curious, Two Tracks: What breed of sheep are you milking? I have Katahdins, and while I know there's no way I'm milking the eldest gal, Draighean, the two lambs (Raignailt and Medb) are likely candidates. Too bad the ewes are less human-oriented than the wether we had. Him, we could handle quite easily.

Anyway, I would enjoy some sheep cheese if I could convince the young 'uns that it's to their advantage (i.e. more food) if they cooperate.

[Two Tracks]

Backforty MI, I am most interested in full sized Nubians, I guess I like their looks and heard they produce highest butter fat and since I'll mainly be making dairy products like cheese, yogurt, butter and ice cream...oh my

Anyways, since you live in Michigan and more familiar with the goat folks...who might you recommend? I prefer to stay in the state. I look for breeders that are active in their breed(s) and that have an honest approach, not looking for show records ~just good herd mgt. and involvement in dairy goat community.

Pony, Glad you endorse Nubians too, You asked on the sheep breed(s) I have, they are cross between Corriedale/Romeldale/Merino so they are med/fine wool producers, not a dairy breed in the bunch, but they do produce milk and collectively have given me enough milk to make cheese every week for 6 weeks (that's my decision, some could go longer but I dry them to get conditioned to be bred again in 10-12 weeks)

Pony, when I milk the ewes I use an "Utterly EZ Milker" (hand held pump) I put halter on and tie them up in a corner, I wash teat's, strip 3 times and place the pump on teat and pump a few times till I see the stream of milk all while I have my hand on bag feeling for emptying. Sheep get used to routine too. Some stand very good others try to protest and kick, but I never let them win. I never put feed in front of them while I milk, they milk out quickly and are back at the manger with the others then I'll grab the next one. It's funny, some of the sheep love to hang around me while I'm milking others after it was their turn.

Honestly, our sheep are very friendly and seek attention as a group ~no treats just lovin'. My daughter and I spend time with them every day, all my ewes were born here except one and she is just as sweet. If goats are even friendlier, wow, I'm in for it. Thanks again ~Chris

[DamnearaFarm]

Originally Posted by Pony

If you're looking for stunning personalities, you can't go wrong with Nubians. They are LOADED with personality.

I'm curious, Two Tracks: What breed of sheep are you milking? I have Katahdins, and while I know there's no way I'm milking the eldest gal, Draighean, the two lambs (Raignailt and Medb) are likely candidates. Too bad the ewes are less human-oriented than the wether we had. Him, we could handle quite easily.

Anyway, I would enjoy some sheep cheese if I could convince the young 'uns that it's to their advantage (i.e. more food) if they cooperate.

This means they're loud and they talk a lot.