Baby goat dead, nasty buyers demanding refund

[lasergrl]

So 6 weeks ago I sold an 8 week old doeling to some new goat owners. She was on 1 bottle a day at this point.

Explained everything I could to them in the short time they were her. She was a Nigerian dwarf. I showed them how to check for anemia and lifted her eyelids down to show how pink she was. They asked if it was normal that they could feel her ribs. I said yes because she is a dairy breed. You can feel but not see them at this age. This was kind of my first clue they didn't know what they were doing but they swore they would look into all the things I told them

fast forward yesterday. I get a call that she is weak. they took her to the vet and he diagnosed barberpole worms. She died on the way home.

I apologized and said thanks for letting me know this, but all goats in this area have barberpole worm so I was aware of them.
Today they are texting me non stop. That I sold them a sick goat. They have "only" had her 6 weeks and deserve a refund.

I tell them that no she as healthy when she left. I cant control the variables that cause a worm bloom, sorry not my fault but im sorry. They keep harassing me telling me they deserve a refund. Im of the position that livestock is sold as is. If it was the first couple weeks then I really would have no problem refunding, but 6 weeks??? Seriously?? And by refunding I feel I am admitting guilt of some sort.

What is the usualy response to buyers like this?

By the way I sold this goat half price, only $150 for a bottle baby Nigerian purebred doeling.

[Doug Hodges]

In my opinion, you buy as is. If the goat made it 6 weeks then it was very healthy when it left you. Otherwise, it wouldn't of made it a week.

[Alice In TX/MO]

As is. If they didn't do any preventive care, it's on them.

However, there are a few things that would help you protect yourself in the future.

Did you have a contract? Signed? Hand-out of care practices?

[Pony]

Ugh. People like that are just horrendous.

They have had that animal for a month and a half. Whatever happened to her was due to their mismanagement.

Can you block those jerks from your phone?

ETA: You may want to send a formal letter, restating that they purchased a healthy animal that lived long enough to prove that it was in good condition when it left your farm, and stating that any further contact from them will be viewed as harassment and dealt with accordingly.

[farmerj]

did YOU go talk to the vet and find out the skinny too?

I'd start there.

Also, if YOU knew that barberpole worms were common in all goats in the area, did you mention it to the new owners if your senses were telling you they were new to this.

I do not raise goats. Just seeing it from a different perspective is all. I get animals, I trust the persons I get them from if they are breeders to help me get started. That includes giving me too much information if I need it or not. You may not have been able to predict or tell when a bloom would occur, but you could have warned them the likelyhood was there.

IF the new owners were informed that barberpole worms are common for the area, could they have watched for the signs better instead of dealing with it when it was too late?

[Pony]

farmerj, Lasergrl already stated that she showed the new owners how to check for anemia, etc.

[lasergrl]

Well I decided to refund half the price. There vet had the nerve to say that there was no way she could have gotten that anemic if she wasn't terribly wormy when they got her. I just don't need the bad word of mouth especially from a vet. Lesson learned.
no contract as it was a $150 doe sold half price with ad saying as is.

[farmerj]

Originally Posted by Pony

farmerj, Lasergrl already stated that she showed the new owners how to check for anemia, etc.

I went and googled anemia and barberpole.

Anemia being a secondary issue from barberpole.

From what I garner, if a goat gets anemia from barberpole, it's not a good situation for the goat and not likely to have favorable results.

[Doug Hodges]

THEY HAD IT 6 WEEKS. IT HAD TO BE HEALTHY WHEN THEY GOT IT. IT WOULDN'T OF LIVED A WEEK IF IT WAS SICK.

Did you talk to the vet? Surely the vet isn't that stupid.

[o&itw]

Originally Posted by Doug Hodges

Did you talk to the vet? Surely the vet isn't that stupid.

I suspect the vet has the buyer as a customer and not the seller...So many people will say anything to keep someone happy, truth or not. I don't know if the vet knows goats. If not, the vet may have no idea how fast worms can infest a goat given optimum conditions.

[wintrrwolf]

Barberpole is a nasty critter but if dealt with in a timely manner it doesn't have to be a death sentence. Had it rear its ugly head here a month and half ago am I lucky that I got IMMEDIATE results after first treatment of quest and B complex?? Maybe, or maybe I am just aware when one of my goats are off ...
I always tell people to CALL me if they have ANY questions, no questions too small or silly since I love talking goats. If they don't well then thats on them. As far as vets well when it comes to goats heh nuff said...
Sorry you had a bout with some nasty buyers, to bad they killed that baby with ignorance. You can say you learned something from this but I doubt they will have and will probable do the same to someone else.

[Pony]

Originally Posted by Doug Hodges

Did you talk to the vet? Surely the vet isn't that stupid.

Don't bet on it.

I sold a pair of beautiful settled Snubian does to someone who swore to me that she knew what she was doing. Well, she talked a good game, but she killed the does and their kids.

She claimed that her vet told her to switch to what was, essentially, sweet feed. Stopped feeding them quality hay. Two heavy-bred does who were brought up on healthy, high-quality feed, switched halfway through their pregnancies to junk food, are not going to fare well.

After both does developed toxemia, the buyers had the nerve to call me, question my genetics (!!???!!!) and looked to blame ME for their and their vet's mess up. Two does who were healthy enough to settle with triplets are not dead from genetics, but from neglect, ignorance, and stupidity.

I told them what to feed. I told them how to maintain the bloom of health in those animals. You can ask anyone here with whom I've dealt how well my goats are cared for, and how I practically BEG people to call if they run into even the smallest of snags.

So, no. Just because someone holds a doctoral degree in veterinary medicine doesn't mean they aren't cosmically ignorant when it comes to goats.

[Cannon_Farms]

The goat would already have to be infected but not yet symptomatic for that quick of death. Yes they should admit fault since they didn't heed the advice given. Anything that is a massive change or stress to a goat can cause a supper bloom or flush making the existing problem much worse. I deworm and marquise anything leaving here for that purpose. If they are too young they are sent home with the meds

[mpete]

It can take as little as 5 days for barberpole worms to be deadly. You are not at fault.

[Wolfy-hound]

If you knew "all goats have barborpole" in your area, you should have mentioned that, what it can cause, etc. Just telling them to look for anemia is not quite the same.

That said, they had the goat for 6 weeks, so whatever happens to the goat is their fault. They should have been able to diagnosis the issue or see symptoms and get the goat to a qualified vet for treatment. The fact that they waited until the goat was so sick it died on the way home from the vet means they ignored symptoms in THEIR animal THEY were caring for.

You should not be legally responsible for an animal that died from parasites 6 weeks after it leaves your care, especially if it's such a common ailment. Is the vet who said you were at fault a livestock vet or mostly a dog/cat vet? Many vets will take in patients like goats or livestock without having even read up on them since vet school, and they don't know what they're doing. I see it all the time with my reptiles and exotics.

I've had a vet literally tell me over the phone "Seahorses are real??" and then when I explained they are a type of exotic fish, etc, and ask for a common med to treat one I had with pouch bloat, the vet told me I had to BRING IT IN so she could "examine it" to see if she would prescribe the med or not. Why?? She didn't know it was a real animal only five minutes before, but I'm supposed to stress the fish out to bring it to the vet, and trust her diagnosis on the animal she never heard of as a real creature??

Always talk directly to the vet and discuss the issues and all calmly and rationally, and preferably use some paperwork from vet colleges or studies done by the vet community to back up your facts. You could end up with a good vet in your area in the end, and if nothing else, he may look up actual info on his own for the next goat.

[mpete]

Be careful.... by giving them a refund you may be opening yourself up for total liability depending on your state laws

[dlskidmore]

I've never gotten a health guarantee on a dog for more than three days. Beyond that only conditions specifically outlined in a contract are reasonable. Like a genetic condition that doesn't show up until they are older or something... That said, you probably did the right thing for your reputation to give a partial refund.

Anemia testing is the standard around here for testing for barber pole worm. That's what the co-operative extension teaches at their annual symposium. (It was a great opportunity to go last year, too bad it was canceled this year.)

[dlskidmore]

I have had vet inspection clauses, that the animal had to be inspected by a vet within the health guarantee period and only if the vet found a problem withing that period was anything refundable.

[Clovers_Clan]

If you sell a car and the new owner fills the gas tank with vinegar and drives it into a tree because he's never learned to drive, are you responsible for the destruction of the car?

When I buy an animal, I assume RESPONSIBILITY for the care of that animal IMMEDIATELY with a full understanding that living things die for reasons within and without my control. PERIOD.

As a COURTESY, many sellers go to varying lengths to educate buyers to ensure their animals receive the best life possible.

There are a few justifications for recourse for a buyer if an animal dies in their care. 1)Fraudulent disease testing paperwork IF the paperwork was requested and provided and 2)Some specific proven genetic disorders.

In all cases it is the RESPONSIBILITY of the BUYER to secure written guarantee of disease testing and fertility. Most large and long-term breeders contain these specifics in sale papers.

It is NOT the responsibility of the seller to inform the buyer of all aspects of care and concern. It is the responsibility of the buyer to become fully informed about the care of an animal BEFORE considering buying one!

What ever happened to personal accountability?!!!

[Cannon_Farms]

The adult female worm can release between 5,000 and 10,000 eggs, which will be passed out in the feces. Eggs then develop in moist conditions in the feces and continue to develop into the L1 (rhabditiform), and L2 juvenile stages by feeding on bacteria in the dung. The L1 stage usually occurs within four to six days under the optimal conditions of 24–29 °C. The L2 rhabditform sheds its cuticle and then develops into the L3 filiariform infective larvae. The L3 form has a protective cuticle, but under dry, hot conditions will not survive long. The L3s then crawl up the blades of wet grass and wait to be ingested by a grazing animal. Sheep, goats and other ruminants become infected when they graze and eat grasses containing the L3 infecting larvae. The infecting larvae pass through the first three stomachs to reach the abomasum. There, the L3s shed their cuticles and burrow into the internal layer of the abomasum, where they develop into L4s, usually within 48 hours, or preadult larvae. The L4 larvae then molt and develop into the L5 adult form. The male and female adults mate and live in the abomasum, where they feed on blood.