How do you retrieve lost Registration papers?

Doug Hodges · #1 08/20/13, 09:02 PM

One of my goats is registered and the lady that I bought her from cant find the papers. She has tattoos in each ear. I think she is a 5 year old. She has a Y17 in her left ear. Her Right ear has a tattoo also. Its a little more hard to read. Ive narrowed it down but am unsure of the middle letter.

Alice In TX/MO · #2 08/20/13, 09:19 PM

Call the registry. They will give you instructions.

JBarGFarmKeeper · #3 08/21/13, 12:39 AM

You will have to get a bill of sale on the registries form. All info is necessary, and have it signed by the last owner of record.

Put on your list of "Nevers-to-again"...Never buy a goat without papers in hand. This will save you so much heartache (and money) you won't believe it.

The registry will transfer her if you have all the info but will charge you for replacement papers even tho you would've sent them back anyway...(don't EVEN get me started).
Ask me how I know all of this...go ahead...

anita_fc · #4 08/21/13, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBarGFarmKeeper

The registry will transfer her if you have all the info but will charge you for replacement papers even tho you would've sent them back anyway...(don't EVEN get me started).
Ask me how I know all of this...go ahead...

Ok. I'll bite. How do you know all of this? And are all registries like this?

yarrow · #5 08/21/13, 11:52 AM

okay... with a little chit=chatting and a little detective work on the info Doug had.. got the doe identified and the breeder tracked down (he bought her from someone who had also bought her/not the breeder)... shouldn't be too hard for him to get his papers replaced.. it was one of Tux's kids.. and Emily is the breeder LOL (small world huh??)

susie, mo ozarks

CraterCove · #6 08/21/13, 11:58 AM

So uh... how do we get papers for a goat we bought from the breeder but my diaper bag/life was stolen with the bill of sale and papers in it and the breeder (kickin K) last I knew was sick and I never got a response. So, now I have a 600$ doe that has no papers :-P and I'd like to use her to start a mini Saanen project because she just really never got the height I want in my Saanens.

coso · #7 08/21/13, 01:30 PM

You would need to get the breeder to re-issue papers, then transfer them to you. Otherwise you would have to contact ADGA and go through a complaint process to see if you could get them that way. I would not do that though until I had exhausted getting them from the breeder possibility.

CraterCove · #8 08/21/13, 01:33 PM

Anyone know if the owner of Kickin K is still around? I am seriously concerned that he passed away. I was very upset when I found out he was ill, I had spent long periods of time talking to him on the phone about goats and such before I went and got Leah. The phone number I had for him doesn't get answered anymore and I haven't gotten a response to email either. I'd hate to just try and drop by.

Doug Hodges · #9 08/21/13, 02:34 PM

Heres where I am. I found the original owner. I talked to her twice today. She sold the goat and papers to another person who she thinks sold them to someone else without the papers who sold them to another person. Anyway, The original owner will get the papers for me if the second owner didn't register her in her name. However, the second owners phone has been disconnected and we are trying to track her down. Emily and Susie are working on that for me. They both know her and know people who know her. I should have papers this year. I love the fact that she is a PB and I didn't know it when I bought her. Is that clear to everyone?

JBarGFarmKeeper · #10 08/21/13, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anita_fc

Ok. I'll bite. How do you know all of this? And are all registries like this?

Been there, done that...

Heritagefarm · #11 08/24/13, 06:38 PM

Hello,
Unfortunately we do not deem this goat worthy of papers. She was originally given away as a non-breeder, presumably as a pet. We did not send her with papers for a reason; we have a quality standard and we simply would not tarnish our image in this manner. We hope you understand, and thank-you very much for your cooperation on this matter.
Sincerely,
Tosh's Heritage Farm

ozark_jewels · #12 08/25/13, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heritagefarm

Hello,
Unfortunately we do not deem this goat worthy of papers. She was originally given away as a non-breeder, presumably as a pet. We did not send her with papers for a reason; we have a quality standard and we simply would not tarnish our image in this manner. We hope you understand, and thank-you very much for your cooperation on this matter.
Sincerely,
Tosh's Heritage Farm

As I am the breeder of this doe and am not ashamed to own to it, I'd like to say something about this "non-breeder". She is Chinook daughter, sired by Tuxedo. She was a perfectly normal doeling one of a set of quads, bred normally in fall of the year she was born, kidded out with twin doelings that spring, milked just fine, no issues at all. I had to cut down that fall and since she wasn't exactly the style I was looking for, she was one of a group that I decided to sell. I sold her as a disease-free yearling, bred to a Purebred Nubian buck just before pick-up for no extra cost(I don't charge "bred" prices for does that are not proven bred).

You had her for the next 1-2 years. I know some details of her life during those years, but those are your years and I'll not venture a timeline on that.

Then someone I did not know calls me up and asks me if I breed outside does. We talked a bit and we set up a time for her to bring over her three does so I could look at them, as long as they were healthy they were staying to be bred. She unloads her three does and one of them was this Nubian. I immediately knew who she was and verified it with her tattoos. I told the owner that I was her breeder and we discussed her background. I did not know *anything* about the transaction between she and "Heritage Farms". This Nubian was an beautiful condition and we decided who to breed her to(she wanted everything bred to a Lamancha as that is the direction they wanted their small herd of milking goats to go) and then the owner went home. All the does bred their first heat, went home, and 5 months later this Nubian produced with no problems, twin doelings. They brought them over to be disbudded and they were lovely. Looked a lot like their mommy but with Lamancha ears. That fall, the owners bought a Lamancha buckling from me to cover all their does and I think I remember her saying that the Nubian bred again, but am not sure. They didn't disbudd but one kid that year, choosing to leave all the bucklings horned for the meat market. I have not talked to her since she called to ask my advice on prices for goats, since they were needing to cut down their numbers and the market was slow.
The OP got my number and called me when he realized that I was the breeder of the unpapered Nubian he had recently bought. I told him that as I had sold the doe with papers and did not know the reasons behind her losing the papers, that even IF the papers were still in my name, it would have to be cleared with "Heritage Farms" before I would put papers on her. And IF the papers were already transferred, then it was entirely in "Heritage Farms" hands if he got the papers or not. I advised the OP that he should call "Heritage Farms", tell them the story and ask if the papers might be available. I told him I was perfectly fine with the doe being papered, she was nothing to be ashamed of and I had sold her with papers in the beginning. It was all up to the people with the papers.

As to your good name and standards being in the balance? This doe is perfectly healthy, in good shape, he did not buy the doe from you and I, as the breeder, am the name on the papers. Your name will not be in any way affected if the doe is garbage or a show winner. But the way you have handled this whole thing and blown it all out of proportion(it was a simple yes or no answer to a phone call), that may effect your name. The friends who tried to help the OP track down the breeder, then the owner of the papers were trying to do everyone a favor, the doe, the OP and you. I am sorry you took it any other way. If the only years this doe had problems were the years that she was with you, you might consider that you, as a relatively new goat person had some management issues. It happens. If a doe has issues during a year where I was unable to meet her needs, I try to give her another chance. Life happens, we all have bad years.

That is the story of the doe.

Doug Hodges · #13 08/25/13, 01:32 PM

This is Stormy. She's a little thinner than my other does. But she is the oldest doe I have and I've only had her a couple of weeks. She's already putting on weight and she's such a sweet girl. This is her. Her udder and her doe kid. Maybe the one Emily is talking about. It's a April 2012 kid. She was a twin.
How do you retrieve lost Registration papers? - Goats

How do you retrieve lost Registration papers? - Goats

Doug Hodges · #14 08/25/13, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heritagefarm

Hello,
Unfortunately we do not deem this goat worthy of papers. She was originally given away as a non-breeder, presumably as a pet. We did not send her with papers for a reason; we have a quality standard and we simply would not tarnish our image in this manner. We hope you understand, and thank-you very much for your cooperation on this matter.
Sincerely,
Tosh's Heritage Farm

I will accept your offer to buy the papers for $150. I think that is way to high considering I already paid for the goat. But I already have plans to breed her to a roan that belongs to Otter who I believe came from Susie. She is scheduled to have her CIDR pulled next weekend and her PG 600 shot next Wednesday.

JBarGFarmKeeper · #15 08/25/13, 02:06 PM

Once papers are transferred, no one's name but the breeder's and owner's is on the papers. If the breeder is proud of her, sign the bill of sale, smile and go on. If she was given away, that was a choice. If the recipient chose to sell her for money, that was his/her prerogative.

Cannon_Farms · #16 08/25/13, 02:09 PM

Im not sure how I feel on that much just to get papers either as I see both sides of the fence but If that is the doe I think i see the issue of her having an underbite a bit but so do some of of the National Champions in the past, it comes with a roman nose.
I dont think you are going to gain a whole lot with getting her papers as far as price difference in the kids if i am seeing an underbite and she passes that along.
Shes a nice doe, nice rear angulation, classic Nubian rump, front legs are devided into even sections, nice flat bone on the back legs, long neck. The things I would want to chance is her mouth of course, though the top of her head is nice and broad hence her being broad in the back end. Her teats will point outwards when she freshens thats a big issue with me but maybe not for you. I would also like to see a little bit longer of rump and more brisket. She may have good brisket but we just cant see because of her leg. With more weight she will blend smoother

ozark_jewels · #17 08/25/13, 03:57 PM

Yep, thats my Storm. Not a showstopper, never was, but I am absolutely not ashamed of her. I think there is a lot to work with. Breed her to a good buck and see what happens. She needs some more weight, which Doug is working on. That will smooth her out a good deal. She is nice and shiny, great Nubian breed character about the head. My biggest problem is her jaw, but even that is not bad, I've seen much worse. That did come with some of Tuxedos kids, unfortunately. Usually showed up about the time they turned a year old, never at birth. Some straightened out by maturity, some did not. I have no problems whatsoever with my name being on her papers. If I had, I wouldn't have papered her to start with.

I am not criticizing the original buyer for not giving out the papers now, that is their decision. But the reasons that were given do not make sense to me, nor the fuss that was made over it(by phone, not here). The reasons had nothing to do with conformation, by the way. That is why I offered her life story.

Going to try and dig up pics of Storm, her dam and her sire.......this computer is abysmally slow.

ozark_jewels · #18 08/25/13, 04:03 PM

Doug, on that little Lamancha/Nubian yearling. I'd really work on feeding her up with good hay, minerals, etc. She is still very young so you should be able to get some of the growth on her that she has so far missed. She *should* be a good little milker based on her sire...haven't checked to see if my memory is correct yet, but either Eclipse or Dune sired her and both are milky bucks.

yarrow · #19 08/25/13, 04:24 PM

I'm so glad you posted what you did Emily.. we all know how busy your life is at this point and how little time you have on the computer.. thank you for taking the time to give us all a better understanding of this situation.. (I know I was rather shocked to read on here a post from a relatively new and totally unknown goat breeder.. would choose to post (on a public form) THEIR opinion of YOUR breeding/goat ????..

(I know that sometimes newer folks just can't control their emotions in these situations.. my entire involvement in this was helping Doug take the info he had and figure out what her reg. name is...he already knew you were her breeder.. SO.. imagine my surprise yesterday afternoon to get a phone call from this *Heritage Farms* person.. aggressively telling me how I was never to give out their name and phone number again ???? LOL.. okay.. not a problem, since I haven't clue who you are (and until they posted yesterday.. didn't know they had ever been on this forum??).. I think a very simple/easy to solve problem has been handled so poorly that it has lead to hard feelings that could *tarnish one's image* much worse then just selling (or if it were me in this postion.. giving) the papers to her new owner.. but that's just my take on the situation..

susie, mo ozarks

yarrow · #20 08/25/13, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doug Hodges

I will accept your offer to buy the papers for $150. I think that is way to high considering I already paid for the goat. But I already have plans to breed her to a roan that belongs to Otter who I believe came from Susie. She is scheduled to have her CIDR pulled next weekend and her PG 600 shot next Wednesday.

not me.. The roan buck Otter has is from Pony.. (he is ALSO from Emily's breedings)

susie, mo ozarks