Polled Goat Breeding Question - Homesteading Today
You are Unregistered, please register to use all of the features of Homesteading Today!    
Homesteading Today

Go Back   Homesteading Today > Livestock Forums > Goats


Like Tree1Likes
  • 1 Post By o&itw

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
  #1  
Old 07/30/13, 07:50 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 93
Polled Goat Breeding Question

I have a question about breeding, passing genetics and polled goats.

I am considering purchasing a Myotonic yearling doe. The in doe in question has horns, but her dam was polled.

If bred to a buck that has no genetic history of polledness, what are the percentages of her having a polled kid?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07/30/13, 10:58 PM
dosthouhavemilk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: SE Ohio
Posts: 2,174
Polled is dominant.
It takes one to make one. If neither buck nor doe are polled then all offspring will be horned. A horned animal can only pass on one of the two copies of horned genes they have.
__________________
Roseanna
Morning Mist Herd
Journey's End Jerseys
Jerseys, Jersey/Norwegian Reds, Beef, Boers, Nubians & crossbreeds
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07/31/13, 07:24 AM
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by dosthouhavemilk View Post
Polled is dominant.
It takes one to make one. If neither buck nor doe are polled then all offspring will be horned. A horned animal can only pass on one of the two copies of horned genes they have.
Ok, thanks. That is what I thought I was understanding, but wanted to confirm.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07/31/13, 10:32 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Maine
Posts: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by dosthouhavemilk View Post
Polled is dominant.
It takes one to make one. If neither buck nor doe are polled then all offspring will be horned. A horned animal can only pass on one of the two copies of horned genes they have.
SO.....If one of the animals is Polled, does that mean that it's offspring will always be polled because that is the dominant gene? OR...if one parent is horned, will the offspring have a 50/50 shot of being polled?

Just curious...
My polled Toggenburg mated with a Nubian....
The Offspring was polled...so we were thrilled b/c we thought we only had a 50/50 shot...
Thx for any additional info!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07/31/13, 10:48 AM
dosthouhavemilk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: SE Ohio
Posts: 2,174
Polled is a simple dominant. It only takes one copy of the polled gene for the animal to display polled.
A goat can technically be heterozygous or homozygous for polled. There is some suspicion whether homozygous polled in goats might be fatal to a developing fetus as truly homozygous polled goats have not really been documented.
Heterozygous polled is the most common in goats. With a heterozygous polled goat they carry a P (Polled gene) and a p (horned gene).
So they can pass either/or onto their offspring. When a Pp is bred to a pp (horned/disbudded) the results average 50% heterozygous Polled and 50% horned.
When a heterozygous Polled is bred to a heterozygous Polled the results should average 25% Homozygous Polled, 50% Heterozygous Polled and 25% Horned.

There was one study done on a closely bred group of Saanens(?) back in the early 70s, I believe it was, that indicated that the Polled gene can carry alongside it a gene for hermaphroditism. Which is why the polled was culled out of a lot of the dairy breeds and why there is some stigma attached to polled goats.
There are breeders who regularly breed polled to polled and have no more hermies than when they breed horned to horned.

Polled, for me, is a wonderful tool. Fewer kids to disbud and I only need one of the animal to be polled to have a 50/50 shot of polled.
In other words, you got the lucky end of the toss of the genetic dice.
__________________
Roseanna
Morning Mist Herd
Journey's End Jerseys
Jerseys, Jersey/Norwegian Reds, Beef, Boers, Nubians & crossbreeds
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07/31/13, 12:08 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Maine
Posts: 232
WOW...Great information THANK YOU!!...
Yes I did get lucky!! My Little gal is a beauty!!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07/31/13, 12:55 PM
aka avdpas77
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: central Missouri
Posts: 3,416
Quote:
Originally Posted by dosthouhavemilk View Post

There was one study done on a closely bred group of Saanens(?) back in the early 70s, I believe it was, that indicated that the Polled gene can carry alongside it a gene for hermaphroditism. Which is why the polled was culled out of a lot of the dairy breeds and why there is some stigma attached to polled goats.
There are breeders who regularly breed polled to polled and have no more hermies than when they breed horned to horned.
There are two major ways of getting genes mixed in animals. The most common, is that for each chromasome strand, the neborn will either get a strand from its grand mother or grandfather (on both sides). Since their are 60 chromosomes it it will have a 50-50 chance of getting any one chromosome from it paternal grand mother, and a 50-50 percent chance of getting any on chromasome from it paternal grandfather ( some with maternal grand mother and grand father) This however limits the gene mixing that can take place, because, barring mutations, all the genes on a given parental chromasome would always be the same.

How nature gets around this, is that when the chomasome strands containing the genes unwind (in the formation of eggs or sperm, which only get one side of the chromasome pair) sometimes there is a place where they cross each other before they fully get untangled, and they swap one end of the chromasome pair with the other side. This is much easier to show in a picture than to explain with words.

For example, in the formation of an egg, under usually circumstances, when one of those 60 chromasome pairs unwind, the egg would get either the exact grandmothers or grandfathers original side of that pair. If, however, when they are undwinding, they snag at some point, and swap ends, each of the chromasome pairs will have one end of the grandmothers chromoasome and the other end will be the grandfathers chromasome. (same with the other side of the pair except it will have opposite ends)

This allows a lot more genetic diversity.

What this means though, is that the genes that are close on a chromasome, have much less chance of being seperated than genes farther away. If there was a defective gene for hermaphroditism, that was within a few genes of the polled gene, then the chances of swapping ends in between them is very reduced. It can be seen that the last genes on either end of the chromosome would always be changed if there was a swap. However, the closer any two genes would be together on the stran, the less chance they would have to be swapped, because the breaking point would have to, by chance, be between them.

Once this happened, if it was recognized, all the offspring of the one carrying polled but not hermaphroditism, would have no trouble, nor would they pass it along.

*The genes on the sex chromosome have their own special interaction, so this description may not necessarily apply. That is where "sex-linked" comes in. One side of the sex chomasome does not have a corresponing paired side.
Jenniferlynne13 likes this.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07/31/13, 03:42 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 93
Just goes to show that we all have our preferences and breeding goals.

I am looking to avoid any trace of polled genetics.

Thanks for the great explanations.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07/31/13, 03:45 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Maine
Posts: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Ridge View Post
Just goes to show that we all have our preferences and breeding goals.

I am looking to avoid any trace of polled genetics.

Thanks for the great explanations.
Just curious....Why is that?
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07/31/13, 04:06 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenniferlynne13 View Post
Just curious....Why is that?
The goats that I am talking about are Myotonics (Tennesse Fainters), which are a meat breed that are pastured a little more "wild" than the dairy breeds. There are quite a number of variations in them, and some have longer hair.

The breeders I am getting my goats from say that they use the horns to groom themselves and stay neater when not polled or disbudded. And since they are a calmer breed of goat, the horns don't pose as much of an issue.

And finally, in Myotonics polled is not considered a fault, but there appears to be a breed preference for horned. So, while not breeding for show, I want to keep my options open to potential buyers.

Excellent question. We should regularly ask ourselves these same questions - because if I can't explain to you, then I might not truly know why I do things.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 07/31/13, 07:44 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Maine
Posts: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Ridge View Post
The goats that I am talking about are Myotonics (Tennesse Fainters), which are a meat breed that are pastured a little more "wild" than the dairy breeds. There are quite a number of variations in them, and some have longer hair.

The breeders I am getting my goats from say that they use the horns to groom themselves and stay neater when not polled or disbudded. And since they are a calmer breed of goat, the horns don't pose as much of an issue.

And finally, in Myotonics polled is not considered a fault, but there appears to be a breed preference for horned. So, while not breeding for show, I want to keep my options open to potential buyers.

Excellent question. We should regularly ask ourselves these same questions - because if I can't explain to you, then I might not truly know why I do things.
Good Answer!! & Thanks for sharing it !!
Makes perfect sense for your situation!!
Reply With Quote
Reply




Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Revised Goat Story FOUND!!!!! Slev Goats 28 04/12/12 10:19 PM
4-H? Goat leader question InHisName Goats 3 07/02/10 01:06 PM
Milking Goat Question Muddy Boots Goats 7 06/11/10 11:00 AM
GOAT CONFERENCE & 4-H Goat Camp - Missouri Karenrbw Goats 44 04/01/08 03:40 PM
LaMancha Breeding Question HELP malickfarms Goats 6 12/07/06 12:22 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:12 AM.
Contact Us - Homesteading Today - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top - ©Carbon Media Group Agriculture