I am the worst goat owner ever

Blue Run Farm · #1 07/22/13, 10:41 AM

I am sitting here trying not to cry, I really am beginning to think I need to get out of goats altogether. My doe Cookie is really sick and it is my fault. She has been very hard to get weight on since she kidded in March. She looked good until then, but has been ribby since she kidded. I wormed her with quest and valbazen right after she kidded and again ten days later. I have wormed her multiple times since then with quest and ivermectin, because she has chronically pale membranes. I have dosed her periodically with Red Cell in an attempt to build up red blood cells. She has always been a reluctant eater and I thought maybe she was deficient in something, so I have been dosing her every morning for a month with a syringe of wheat germ oil, calcium carbonate, kelp meal and a pinch of cobalt. In addition, I keep baking soda and loose minerals available at all times and adults are dosed with Replamin Plus weekly. I stopped milking her altogether because she was barely producing. But, she seemed happy and was always acting normal, wandering around browsing with the other goats and a wonderful mama to her twin bucklings (abruptly weaned last night, as the vet said she needs her strength more than they need what little milk they were getting).

Last night I went out to put up the goats for the night and she was flat out on her side unable to rise. My hubby got her up and she had bottle jaw. I called the vet out for an emergency call and she was up but very very weak. He said she has fluid in her abdomen and chest and he thought she might be in kidney failure. He took blood and stool to run tests. Well, he just called and her kidneys are fine but she has a very heavy parasite load! Her stools were dry berries and I have been worming her regularly. I feel terrible. He wants me to dose her with Levamisole for 5 days, give B12, and put her on LA-200 every 24 hours. She got the first dose of LA-200 and B12 last night when he was there. I have never heard of Levamisole, so obviously have never used it. He said they don't use it much anymore because other wormers are more effective, but it might work if our worms have become resistant to what I have been using. So on top of everything, I am creating my own superworms.

I asked him what I am doing wrong, my other goats look great but she is being killed by worms. He said she has NO parasite resistance and this will be a problem for the rest of her life. She is only a year and a half old and the sweetest girl. I don't know if I can do this. I am stuck at work and I can't leave early. I am terrified I am going to get home and she is going to be gone. And it is MY FAULT! I could almost deal with her having kidney failure better, that is something that we have no control over. But it is worms, I have tried and tried to get rid of them and I have failed. And now she could die because I failed her. Why are goats so heartbreaking? Of all of my animals, they are the hardest and I don't know why. They are just so darn fragile and I don't know if I can deal with it anymore. This sucks.

parrotman · #2 07/22/13, 10:51 AM

I'm very sorry to hear of your goat's condition and can only imagine what you're going through.
Since your vet says she has no parasite resistance, is that something that is genetic or did she acquire it?
The fact that your other goats are doing well certainly is a tribute to the care you've given them.
Be kind to yourself and hope that the new wormer will do the trick. I wish her well.

Clovers_Clan · #3 07/22/13, 11:32 AM

You haven't failed her at all. You've done your research, kept on top of worming and nutrition. If you asked folks on this forum, everyone has had a goat with poor resistance despite excellent care. I know I have. Usually it is attributable to genetics. Last year I culled an entire line of offspring from a particular buck because they were so poor. The rest of the herd was doing well. I later found out that same buck had died after several chronic bouts with bottle jaw. Some breeds, like Boers, are particularly susceptible.

I'm sorry you are going through this now. Trying to save her and knowing her long term outlook is not good is just heart breaking.

blujenes · #4 07/22/13, 12:42 PM

You haven't failed! You did all you could, and it's not your fault she has low worm resistance. These things happen. It stinks, and it breaks your heart, but it's NOT YOUR FAULT. You can't blame yourself for one fluke goat. From the sound of things, the rest of your goats are fat, shiny and happy. I'm so sorry about her. Please, please, please don't beat yourself up about it.

myheaven · #5 07/22/13, 12:57 PM

If you can find worm wood in capsules and garlic in pill or capsule form. that may help her along with the other wormer.
You did not fail her. Failing her would be never calling the vet and just letting her die.
I have a goat prone to worms and hoof rot.

SkeeterBlue · #6 07/22/13, 01:21 PM

Isn't bottle jaw usually a problem with heavy barber pole worm? If so you need to worm with Prohibit or another that is effective for Barber Pole. Valbazen is terrific. I use it. But it won't kill Barber Pole.

punchiepal · #7 07/22/13, 01:38 PM

Levamisole is prohibit.
I have culled a doe and her kids due to lack of resistance.

CraterCove · #8 07/22/13, 01:49 PM

Seems to me you've done everything you should. It's not your fault. A fluke of genetics or environment is something all of us have had to learn to cope with. You called the vet, you have medicated, you have done everything you can for her. Seems like she is simply going to have a troubled life if you keep her but now you know.

Although.... I think we need pics of the rest of the clan

(always need pics) Can we not have the mods put up a requirement for posting in the goat forum? No pic no post?

Jenniferlynne13 · #9 07/22/13, 02:56 PM

I feel so bad for you as well...! Along with the suggestion of worm wood or garlic, another great supplement that I have been reading up on for a natural parasite control is oregano oil.

Here is a study that seemed to have very promising results for goats.
http://mysare.sare.org/mySARE/Projec...088&y=2009&t=1

I have been giving my goats capsules from Puritains.com
http://www.puritan.com/puritans-prid...258?scid=18258

They gobble them up like they were gummie candies...(I just give one after breakfast and one after supper) just as a maintenance support...

I also have had excellent success giving these capsules to my dog that suffered from a sensitive stomach for years...after a couple of months taking the oregano capsules...he has never had a problem again....We also gave it to him when he had a respiratory infection the vet gave him some antbiotics, but he's a big dog, 14 years young...and I was afraid that the antibiotics would do more harm than good...He bounced back in a couple of days...and just does SO well with the oregano oil!...

any hoo...I wish you the best of luck...

onebizebee · #10 07/22/13, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkeeterBlue

Isn't bottle jaw usually a problem with heavy barber pole worm? If so you need to worm with Prohibit or another that is effective for Barber Pole. Valbazen is terrific. I use it. But it won't kill Barber Pole.

This! One of my friends had a goat just like what you are describing she was told to use Prohibit for this goat. It worked! It worked! It worked! This is a sheep wormer. I don't know much about it but google is our friend.
Hope she turns around for you!

Suzyq2u · #11 07/22/13, 04:45 PM

Don't beat yourself up!! Seems to me you've done everything right, sometimes we can't think of *all* those crazy goats can come up with!
I hope the new meds help her to feel better soon... Hugs to you!

dozedotz · #12 07/22/13, 05:01 PM

For what it is worth, you have done a marvelous job of trying to deal with a dear little animal that is apparently not very worm resistant. You definitely do NOT need to beat yourself up over anything! Last fecal test (worm and cocci at the vet for our gang was in April...we are about to do another one before breeding in September for the adult does) the vet remarked that one of our does is amazingly worm resistant...she had zero eggs or anything else for the last 2 years. She is just that way. Talked to her breeder about it and she confirmed that her mother is the same...she said, "That whole line is like that. Very healthy." The vet (his parents raised LaManchas) said, "You might want to consider keeping her kids. If they are like this one and there is a good chance they will be like her, you will have some worm resistant goats." We did nothing special for her. Some goats are more resistant and some (I suspect like your girl) are not. It is not something you did or did or did not do. As a goat owner and breeder you have just learned something very important about your herd and you need to accept that that learning is part of the curve. Congrats on taking such great care of your goats...even this little one...you are a wonderful owner!!!

Blue Run Farm · #13 07/22/13, 05:57 PM

Thanks, guys. It's just so frustrating and heartbreaking and I feel like I should have known somehow. I keep wondering why this is happening, what is wrong with her. She was one of quintuplets, so that may have something to do with it, or not.

I gave her the Prohibit (Levamisole) today, she foamed and shook, it was horrible. The vet had me dose her at 12mg/kg, which is higher than the recommended dosage, but he said he wanted to go higher to give it a chance to work before the parasites killed her

I guess it was a choice of the worms definitely killing her or taking a chance of the wormer killing her, not a good choice. As long as she is hanging in there, I will keep doing whatever I can. She is weaker today than she was last night, I saw her pee on herself laying down. But she still eats her hay and rubs her head on me. I feel like it is a race between the worms killing her and the wormer killing them. I know I can never breed her again, I don't want to pass this to kids. And I can't in good faith get rid of her for fear someone else will let her die. So if she survives I will have to keep her as a pet for as long as she has. Which will not make hubby happy, but oh well.

I just ran out and took some pictures for you all. Needed to do something happy. Okay, that didn't work. It keeps saying invalid file

So I can't even share pictures. Sorry!

Backfourty,MI. · #14 07/23/13, 09:26 AM

Sure hope the med's the vet suggested work for your girl. Sounds like this was her last breeding & probably a good thing since her lack in hardiness being such a hard keeper probably does have something to do with genetics.
Sounds like your trying to do everything right for your goats & that makes you a good goat owner so don't beat yourself up.

Pony · #15 07/23/13, 07:44 PM

Beating yourself up is not going to make anything better. It's not your fault, and there's really no one to blame.

Sometimes, we get a goat that just doesn't thrive, despite excellent care.

Your gal has had excellent care, and you continue to take good care of her. I fail to see how you have failed her.

{hug}

Keep us posted.

Bret4207 · #16 07/24/13, 09:43 AM

"These things happen." I read those words in a lot of older farm books and I heard it from old timer farmers. It's the truth. These things DO happen, despite everything we do they happen. It's not your fault that indiscriminate drug use has created super worms and that genetics gave your goat such low resistance. Just do what you can. I have a goat we've been trying to put weigh ton for several months, she's a rack of bones and has been since we got her. I've only just managed to use an off label drug that seems to be helping. Same with a ewe of ours that we've been 3 years expecting her to die. The other night I gave her a cocktail of wormers hoping to do as your vet is doing- kill the worms before they kill her.

These things happen, just do the best you can and realize that sometimes despite our best efforts they die.

**mygoat** · #17 07/24/13, 12:29 PM

The problem with goats is not that they're abnormally fragile or hard to care for - it's that we get too attached to every single one, including the ones that need to be culled. Thier personalities are the upside and downside of raising them.

As for management, I would first change your pastures up and move to rotational grazing. Goats and sheep raisers NATIONWIDE have problems with worm loads and animals with low resistance. This is not a new problem or anything you did wrong - but we are finding that rotational grazing is the number 1 strongest tool for reducing worm problems. That, and strategic deworming.

Culling animals that are not resistant, not hardy, or not working in YOUR specific setup for whatever reason does not mean you're failing - it just means that animal is not suited to the life you expect it to handle. Culling is the answer for a lot of things like this. It sucks when it's an animal that we like otherwise, but it is the hard truth when raising LIVESTOCK.

I know it's tough. I have a doe with a wound on her back that won't heal - not because it's infected, or even in any way a 'serious' wound - she will. not. stop. chewing on it. I have her AI daugther from this year, so she's getting culled as a 'hard keeper'. We've tried coats and cone heads and isolation (she lets other goats chew on it, too), gluing fabric to the hair around the wound, nasty tasting stuff of all kinds (you'd think we candy coated it) and nothing has worked. Well, the coat and the fabric worked for a while, and it would heal up to a callous that wouldn't grow hair, and she'd chew it open again as soon as we take the coat off (or when she breaks it, which is often). She's not worth the trouble besides being extremely sweet.

blindhog · #18 10/25/13, 06:45 PM

I saw your note...just FYI...I have a dorper ewe with the same issue...a 'scabby' spot that on her lower spine that she just won't quit licking...no hair on it...and while it doesn't seem to be bleeding, it is just red and looks terrible...out of 25 sheep, she is the only one....I did note that it seemed to 'heal' over the colder winter months...only to reappear in the summer...several shots of penicillin seems to have not done much...

All this seems to not bother her...gets around fine...just had trips this past week...babies healthy, plenty of milk and attention to babies...not sure if this helps...I asked my brother about it, he said he sees it occasionally and same 'no neg effects' other than cosmetics

GoldenWood Farm · #19 10/25/13, 06:56 PM

((((hugs)))) You didn't fail her in any way, I would make sure to give her some probiotics and even some baking soda to make sure her stomach doesn't get upset. I would also be giving her Vit. B Complex and even some Nutri-Drench if you have it.

I will be sending up an extra prayer tonight for your sweet girl. It is so hard when these things happen, I know this happened to me once. My buck got a major worm load on top of pneumonia and I almost lost him, was totally my fault because I wasn't keeping a close enough eye on him. ((((hugs))))

Justine

Doug Hodges · #20 10/25/13, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blue Run Farm

Thanks, guys. It's just so frustrating and heartbreaking and I feel like I should have known somehow. I keep wondering why this is happening, what is wrong with her. She was one of quintuplets, so that may have something to do with it, or not.

I gave her the Prohibit (Levamisole) today, she foamed and shook, it was horrible. The vet had me dose her at 12mg/kg, which is higher than the recommended dosage, but he said he wanted to go higher to give it a chance to work before the parasites killed her

I guess it was a choice of the worms definitely killing her or taking a chance of the wormer killing her, not a good choice. As long as she is hanging in there, I will keep doing whatever I can. She is weaker today than she was last night, I saw her pee on herself laying down. But she still eats her hay and rubs her head on me. I feel like it is a race between the worms killing her and the wormer killing them. I know I can never breed her again, I don't want to pass this to kids. And I can't in good faith get rid of her for fear someone else will let her die. So if she survives I will have to keep her as a pet for as long as she has. Which will not make hubby happy, but oh well.

I just ran out and took some pictures for you all. Needed to do something happy. Okay, that didn't work. It keeps saying invalid file

So I can't even share pictures. Sorry!

The prohibit will kill her if given in that high a dose. What does she weigh? The recommended dose is 1 cc for 25lbs. (I think) I gave it to a young buck and it worked. That was in August. From what I understand, giving a bigger dose is not really going to be any better than giving the proper dose. It could actually be worse