Mixed herds

[Kathleen in WI]

What are the pros and cons of a mixed herd (regarding breeds). I am having a rough time deciding what breed I like best. Right now I have the Alpine doe and a Nigerian doe(with her little bucking). And I really love Nubians. So, if I have a little of this and a little of that, is that a bad thing? Can they all be breed by the same buck? Or would I do better going with AI?

What are your opinions?

[Alice In TX/MO]

AI isn't an easy or inexpensive thing. You'd be better off with either full size or mini goats and not the mix of Nigerian and full size. I say this because I have a mix, and I wish I didn't.

[Backfourty,MI.]

I also think it it better to decide on either a mini breed/small or a standard size other wise you really need 2 different bucks or at least I would. Then if you have so many different breeds do you want registered or just using any extra bucklings for the freezer? Not that unregistered is bad just trying to give you other things to think about too.

[Kathleen in WI]

At this point, I am not concerned about registered goats because I just don't have time or energy to show them. But that may change. Who knows.

It is just really hard to decide. I got the Nigerian because my daughter wanted something that would stay small. Actually, she wants an eternal bottle baby that will eat when it is convenient for her. And of course, that does not exist.

I have osteoarthritis in my lower back, so bending down to grab collars is painful. Though, maybe it will improve as I do it more. So maybe full sized are better. I am just having such a hard time.

[ozark_jewels]

Having had 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 breeds at different times in the past, I will say I really think its hard to do justice to more than 2 breeds at a time. Now, this is from a "breeders" point of view, rather than someone just wanting to breed to get family milk. As a breeder of registered goats, it kept me too limited on the number of does and bucks of each breed I could keep. Seemed to see the same in others herds.
As someone wanting milk for the family, the same applies to some degree. You will be crossbreeding, or keeping way too many bucks. Crossbreeding is no problem as long as you do not mind that. Crossbreeding will slightly cut down on the worth of your kids, and the marketability of your kids. But that may not matter to you in your situation, or at least enough to make a difference in your decision.
Now, you do not need Purebred goats to show them. For ADGA shows they need to have papers, but many Grades(mostly crossbreds) have ADGA papers. For the small local shows(open shows), you don't need papers at all.
For re-marketability, its not a bad idea to buy registered bucks to use over your does if you can. It is usually easier to find good quality bucks in registered stock as well. Not that there isn't registered trash, because there is. Just that its easier to trace the quality back with a papered buck and *most* breeders strive for quality. Any *doelings* out of a registered buck will be registerable.
Anyway.........I seem to see more often than not, that keeping more than 2 breeds makes it harder to keep the quality. Not impossible, just harder. Just my experience.
It can be problematic keeping dwarf breeds and full-size breeds.

[mygoat]

No reason not to do registered goats - they cost the same to feed as an unregistered but their kids will always sell for more. Generally, you'll have more demand for registered kids.

Anywho, with a bit of this and a bit of that, figuring out how many bucks you want/need is the main challenge.

For the nigie, she'll NEED to be bred to another nigie... or a pygmy, but please don't do that. If you like Nubians more than Alpines, but are attached to your Alpine doe, you can always get a nubian buck and breed him to nubian does AND your alpine doe.

And finally, you could get a nigerian buck and breed it to everything. I'd be extremely super sure that nigerian buck's dams/sisters/paternal granddams had hand milking size teats. Personally, I've never seen a nigie's teats that didn't make my hands cramp just looking at them. I knwo they exist somewhere as I've seen internet pictures... but never personally laid eyes on any.

Doing AI without registered goats would be a total waste of time/money/effort, IMO. Tanks cost HUNDREDS (and borrowing someones or renting space is terrible inconvenience from all aspects that I've considered), Equipment is special for goats and costs a couple hundred, Tank fills cost about 40.00 every few months, the effort of AI'ing does is quite large (monitoring, or doing hormone cycling, and the actual AI process), and you must do it yourself. There are a few AI clinics to learn how to go goats, but not many. Goats are not like any other species, and have special equipment and special process unike any other AI'd species... so chances are you can't call a local vet to do AI on a goat and expect them to do any better of a job at it than you. And then after all that, the AI sucess rate is nowhere near 100%, and there is a pretty good chance that you'll have open does hanging around.

[Backfourty,MI.]

Even if you don't have an interest in showing folks looking to buy kids might. I had unregistered goats for years up until last year & Loved all our goats, just depends on what your goals are. Like mygoat said though it doesn't cost anymore to feed registered goats & your kids will sell for more money.

[motdaugrnds]

Well, when I first started raising goats, I was undecided as to what breed I wanted too. I did know I wanted something I could handle, that was large enough so I didn't have to do a lot of bending to just pet them, and that would provide quality milk easy to get. I brought home 3 different breeds, all full blood (Alpine, Nubian, Toggenburg). I LOVED THE TASTE of the Toggs mimlk. I like the intelligence of the Alpine. I liked the creamy milk of the Nubian.

With all this, keeping a "mixed" herd was problematic in that I wanted to retain the purity of each breed. This simply could not be done without having a buck of the same breed for each doe! (Now if you have no desire to maintain the integrity of any one breed, then a mix would be fine; however, I would not advise mixing small goats with large ones.)

[wintrrwolf]

I have tried a few different breeds but my registered stock is nubian and since 1 nubian gives me "usually" more milk than 2 nigerians at one time I had to face the hard decision and am selling all my nigi's actually sold 4 today now only have 2 boys (sigh). And ya it is really hard if you diversify with too many breeds ...saying is I can do one thing really well or many things half as good...
Ultimately your herd will grow as you do

[Kathleen in WI]

I guess I have a little time to decide. My husband said no more goats until he buys me the ring he wants for me. When we got married, it was sooner than we had planned so he got a plain band to go with my engagement ring (which I am perfectly happy with), but he wanted a band with diamonds for me. He designed the engagement ring and wanted the wedding band to match it.

I am totally happy with what I have, but it is important to him (because my ex husband pawned my wedding ring and other things, he feels it is important to give me the things I never was able to have). So, I will do what he wants.

He loves the goats but really doesn't like mama (the Nigerian). But I like the idea of adding more Nigerians and then breeding the Nigerian buck to my Alpine doe. That way I can keep my babies and still focus on one breed primarily. But I keep going back and forth. Maybe I will figure it out by the time I can buy more.

[wintrrwolf]

Well if you can't buy more you can breed more ;P
Guess an Alpine bred to a nigi would be a mini alpine first gen would be F1 BUT peeps sorta discount them unless you got "papers" to prove it...and if you breed back to fullblood it puts you back at F1 or something like that...always found it a headache to keep track of.

[Kathleen in WI]

Um... yeah. That sounds totally confusing. lol I would love to breed more Molly will be a while though since she is only around 4-5 months old. Not sure when Ma can be bred again, but she is really being a pain with her new baby.

She hates being out of the barn with him and just yells and yells. I make them stay out because i think they need the fresh air and she needs the browse, but she doesn't even want to eat. just a bite here and a bite there in between yelling fits. Then I finally let her back in the stall and give her hay and pellets. The little guy sure like being out though. I could watch him all day long.

[KSALguy]

all depends on what you want to get out of your herd, when I was back in Kansas on the farm my herd was made up of both dairy and meat does, I used a Nubian buck once and then switched to a Boer buck, we milked a few of the dairy does for our own use and the rest produced kids for the meat market, and for our freezer,

a well bred Boer doe will produce a lot of milk, just not as long as a dairy doe, but also dairy crossed with a meat buck make excellent freezer stock and the doelings are a good addition to the herd, you can even milk them, but if you wanted to get a few more dairy doelings to add to your milk string you can use a dairy buck when needed over your dairy does.
I had some alpine and saanen, a toggenburg some Nubian does, I had some pure Boer and boer grades, some Spanish does and some mid range unknown crosses from a Nigerian or Pygme cross that were big enough to breed up to boer and Nubian bucks,

[Kathleen in WI]

My hope is for milk and meat for my family, but I would like to get to the point of making products from goat milk also. I am not sure if it is legal to sell actual goat milk here in Wisconsin (I have seen conflicting information) but I wouldn't mind doing that, too, if it is okay to do it without the milk mafia coming to get me.

All that said, I still have no idea which way I want to go. But I have a feeling we will be getting rid of Ma (the Nigerian) regardless. My husband just doesn't like her at all.

[KSALguy]

if your only after milk and meat then the outside of the goat doesn't matter, you cant milk ears or registration papers, and meat can be from any goat, home use and milk or cheese production doesn't matter what breed really, so really sales of stock/meat animals would be the only issue, pure papered stock sells for more as breeders, boer marked animals sell better in the ring for meat sales, because meat buyers know the boer type, there are other meat breeds but those sell better direct market, not at sale barns.

[ak wilderness]

I would say it all depends on what you want them for. We started with registered nigerians, love them, except their small teats which i'm working on. We aquired an oberhasli boer cross doe that we love. Boer crosses seem to give richer milk. Just got a nubian doeling. We maintain our registered nigerians status but breed the standard does to our nigerian buck, with the aid of a hill or stump. Just got an oberhasli buck wich we will use for one breeding of the larger does. We like our mixed herd. If you started with purebred does of show quality you could always show them but not their half nigerian kids. I personally am going toward mid sized milkers but havent gotten any doe out of our standard/nigerian breedings yet.
I don't know what the average cheese yeild is per gallon of milk but a friend said he gets 1lb per gal. we did 2 gal of milk and instead of the 2lbs of cheese he insisted we would only get, we got 3 1/2 lbs plus a few cups of ricotta. Just a big bonus toward nigerians. hoping to get a good compromise of quantity and butterfat from our mid size.

[xymenah]

Keeping two breeds its easy since bucks really do need companionship you can have two bucks and mix your does until you need them bred. I agree with registering them. I currently have mixed breed dairy goats who are not registered but am selling the ones I can't live without and starting over with purebred Lamancha's. Unregistered goats don't sell well here at all and if you can sell them its only for under $200 and that's in milk and everything despite the fact that my unregistered goats could out produce some registered ones. You're not making money back that way. Registered goats don't eat any more so its economical for me to go registered.

[Kathleen in WI]

Yes, I suppose if we ever get our fence done i could keep 2 bucks for 2 different breeds. Of course, I don't know how I will rebreed Ma if I get to keep her. Can't really breed her to her own baby.

Seems even the registered goats I see here don't sell for all that much. Still, I can see the benefits of having registered goats, as long as i don't have to show them. I don't have time for that. I barely manage to keep up with farm work, house work and paid work. (which reminds me, I should be editing right now...)

[southerngurl]

My Nubians would really be better off without other breeds in the herd because they are too gentle to deal with my grumpy togg and my pushy lamancha. These two boss the whole crew.

[Kathleen in WI]

My Nigerian is sort of grumpy too, but the others will be bigger than she is soon. So she probably won't be queen for long.