Separation due to sore teat...

Jenniferlynne13 · #1 06/17/13, 08:32 PM

Hi All,
My FF Cally started looking like one of her Teats had developed a few callouses and teeth marks....(we were having her nurse due to small teats and difficulty getting enough milk to bottle feed from the get go)...

(she has VERY small teats)

I noticed that she had also developed some little bumps on this one teat towards the tip....so three nights ago, I started keeping the kids away from her over night (they slept in a dog kennel in her stall, so that I could wash her down in the mornings with the Chlorhexidine solution and then feed her milk back to the kids... Twins Doe-ling and buckling. I then was letting the kids nurse during the day so that she wouldn't require additional milking....

Her one bad teat seemed to look WORSE after two days....that whole side of her udder looked a bit bigger.

Today I kept the kids away ALL day... they ate form the bottle, the field & also had some grain...and they seemed fine .....

When I milked her.....I think she was doing the RIVER DANCE.....I have NO idea if I was able to Milk her out....I TRIED for over an hour 3x today.... When I worked on the tender side, in the beginning, the milk flowed PERFECTLY ....but as the supply became less...it almost seemed like she was holding on to it...I would give her a little massage and get another GOOD squirt...over and over and over again... HOW LONG SHOULD I KEEP DOING THIS BEFORE STOPPING???? it seemed I could have kept going for hours.... but she was NOT happy.......I should mention, the milk looks PERFECT....there is NOT ONE clump or string...NO blood ....and her temp is normal....

Part of the reason I separated them was because both Kids had little pimple bumpy looking pustules on their noses which have been forming, and disappearing now for a couple of days...and my fear was that they were infecting her teat by suckling....and it was becoming a vicious circle....

Tonight after milking, I washed her again with the Chlorhexidine, and then put some Triple Antibiotic Cream on her bad teat and any other suspicious spots....

The worst part is hearing her cry for her babies...(BTW....which are now a month old)

I am sorry this is so long...but I wanted to get the whole story across....and ask...
Am I Doing The Right Thing?

Because there are no signs of clumps, clots or strings in her milk, should I just continue to milk her as best I can and keep them separated?? How should I make the decision to STOP milking if every time I give her a little bump/massage, I get another healthy squirt of milk...but if i don't bump/massage...she isn't letting down anything??

My Toggenburg, Addy had the same bumps and a bad rash like situation and she has improved REMARKABLY after getting her washed 2x per day with the chlorhexidine.....so, I'm hoping that treating Cally in the same manner will also help the situation......My biggest fear is wondering HOW LONG should I simulate the KID BUMP...in order to try and milk her out???? I've already posted a thread regarding my concerns for Cally's Meaty Udder....it never seems to go flacid...but I've been told that with a FF, this can be totally normal...

THANKS so much in advance for any suggestions... it seems like once one stressful situation ends another pops up....

Alice In TX/MO · #2 06/17/13, 08:41 PM

Keep in mind that a doe produces milk in a steady dribble all the time, so if you milk out the bulk of what she has retained over a few hours, there is still going to be some milk produced even *as* you milk.

Do you have pics of the affected area? Staph dermatitis looks like small white pimples. Orf looks like cold sores.

Jenniferlynne13 · #3 06/17/13, 08:46 PM

I think it is staph dermatitis...they look like small white pimples...not cold sores...
I had put some blu-kote on them so the picture I did take just looks like a Blue Stained Teat....

I knew that they would keep producing in dribs and drabs...but I've read so much about the importance of Milking Out Completely....that I suppose where her udder is so firm...that I am not sure how to be certain I've milked enough...

I will wash her up tomorrow am and try and get some better pictures...
Thanks

Alice In TX/MO · #4 06/17/13, 08:48 PM

Is it just firm in one area? Does part of it feel different from other parts?

Are there areas that feel hot?

Jenniferlynne13 · #5 06/17/13, 08:58 PM

No...it's firm pretty much everywhere....has been since a month or so before she kidded...

It all feels pretty much the same...although now that I've been milking her daily, and have had my hands on her more often....after the majority of the milk is out....the base of the udder, just above where her teat meets her udder, definitely feels softer...and more pliable...and the skin on the back side of the udder is a lot looser that when I start...but under the skin...she's quite firm everywhere...

I haven't noticed any hot spots...and I've had another seasoned goat person feel her ( three days ago though) and he said the same....nothing hot...just feels like normal temperature...

Alice In TX/MO · #6 06/17/13, 08:59 PM

Sounds normal, other than the dermatitis.

Jenniferlynne13 · #7 06/17/13, 09:01 PM

so you think what I'm doing is milking her out sufficiently...and I should just keep it up...the milking & Treating the dermatitis?? ....and separation from the kids was the right choice?

I REALLY appreciate the insight...I'm going to sleep much better tonight .....THANK YOU SO MUCH ALICE~~

Alice In TX/MO · #8 06/17/13, 09:19 PM

That's why I was wondering about pics. Whether to put the kids back on is dependent on how her teat looks.

Jenniferlynne13 · #9 06/17/13, 09:25 PM

OK... It'll try and get some good pics in the morning!
Thanks again....!!

Jenniferlynne13 · #10 06/18/13, 07:16 AM

Here are some pics from this morning....

Separation due to sore teat... - Goats

She let me milk her till there was very little left...but still on that bad side squirmed like crazy...Cant Blame her though...

Washed before and after with Chlorhexidine...made it a little stronger this morning and also dipped each teat in a dixie cup of it just before letting her off the stand...

The baby girl is 100% FINE with the bottle...but the little guy (the one that was O2 Deprived at birth) just WILL NOT take a bottle...no matter what kind of nipple I put on there...he will suckle my finger...and he LOVES his momma's teats....but won't take the bottle...He does eat grain, field plants etc...and definitely has a good appetite....poops on both kids look GREAT....they were born on May 19th....so I think he should still have milk....

I know the teat looks terrible...but ANY dark color is from the Blu-Kote...When I was putting it on, she kicked...and of course smeared it all over... (I had bought the one with the dauber not the spray...)

otherwise, her skin color and temp seem fine to me...
it's just the bumps...and firmness that are of concern...
and if i should keep the kids separate and for how long...(probably till they all clear up I'd guess!!)

THANKS in advance for any advice !!

Alice In TX/MO · #11 06/18/13, 08:35 AM

The buckling needs milk. He's too young to wean, unless you plan on simply having him for dinner later.

Those bumps are bigger than the staph dermatitis I'm used to, and they don't look like Orf, either.

I'm stumped.

Jenniferlynne13 · #12 06/18/13, 09:01 AM

I can keep trying with the little guy...but he just is NOT interested in the bottle...i spent a half hour sitting with him this morning....and he just won't take it... His sister's is GONE in 2 seconds flat!!

I'm not adverse to having the little guy for dinner...it's already a consideration since he's clearly not quite right....but I would hate for him to go into the freezer because I GOOFED up and didn't do right by him....
I sure am trying to do the right things here..!! I'm just feeling VERY deflated because at every turn there is frustration and one problem after another!!...

You would think that if he were hungry enough and he realized when he tasted the milk (which he DOES taste..he gets an ounce or two...last night after 45 minutes of trying I had about 5 ozs into him....) you'd think he'd realize it was good stuff and show interest...

Any one else ever seen bumps like these? They don't rupture...they end up drying up and then go away....Addy had the same thing...but not so low on the teat...

these are the same bumps that I'm seeing on the kid's noses...

they're there for a day then dry up and disappear, like I mentioned...I was afraid that the kids and mom were perpetuating the problem via nursing)

ARRGGGG!!!!

hurryiml8 · #13 06/18/13, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jenniferlynne13

I can keep trying with the little guy...but he just is NOT interested in the bottle...i spent a half hour sitting with him this morning....and he just won't take it... His sister's is GONE in 2 seconds flat!!

I'm not adverse to having the little guy for dinner...it's already a consideration since he's clearly not quite right....but I would hate for him to go into the freezer because I GOOFED up and didn't do right by him....
I sure am trying to do the right things here..!! I'm just feeling VERY deflated because at every turn there is frustration and one problem after another!!...

You would think that if he were hungry enough and he realized when he tasted the milk (which he DOES taste..he gets an ounce or two...last night after 45 minutes of trying I had about 5 ozs into him....) you'd think he'd realize it was good stuff and show interest...

Any one else ever seen bumps like these? They don't rupture...they end up drying up and then go away....Addy had the same thing...but not so low on the teat...

these are the same bumps that I'm seeing on the kid's noses...

they're there for a day then dry up and disappear, like I mentioned...I was afraid that the kids and mom were perpetuating the problem via nursing)

ARRGGGG!!!!

Have you tried covering the little guy's eyes? I had to block the view of one of mine so he didn't see the bottle. Good luck.

Jenniferlynne13 · #14 06/18/13, 10:06 AM

I'll try that at lunch today ...thanks for the suggestion!

harvestmoonfarm · #15 06/18/13, 10:45 AM

CL? Orf? My first inclination was Orf since you said the kids are also developing bumps, but those bumps wouldn't just come and go as you're describing. Might want to have your vet do a culture.

Jenniferlynne13 · #16 06/18/13, 12:02 PM

I've called the vet... she will be calling me back....

When I took my other goat in to the vet due to these same bumps and a sore she had between her teats...the vet gave me some Silver Sulfide cream and said that she did not suspect orf and did not feel the need to do any particular tests because she suspected Staph Dermatitis...

On another thread, about the goat that took the trip to the vet, another poster suggested Chlorhexidine, and another person Blu-Kote...
Between the two solutions...my Toggenburg has completely cleared up...so I am not too concerned about the problem clearing up on the momma.......

I'm more concerned now about the little boy who will NOT bottle feed...(and the fact that the two kids have these pimple like bumps on their noses is of concern too...!! ) I have Penicillin...and I have syringes (for the little ones and the bigger goats...) but I have never administered it before so I need to find someone to give me a demo....

I just went out and milked Momma ... baby girl drank 12 ozs...but I gave the little guy a bottle and he didn't want it...he took the nutri-drench...but didn't want any part of the bottle...he actually seems very very lethargic..... so I'm kind of freaking out...

this STINKS.....!!!

hurryiml8 · #17 06/18/13, 01:11 PM

Sounds like you need to tube feed the buckling. It might buy you some time to figure out what else might be wrong.

Jenniferlynne13 · #18 06/18/13, 01:41 PM

Yes....That could be.....I was also thinking of taping the bad teat and letting him drink from the good one.....this doesn't solve the problem of cross contamination...but at least he'd get some milk....

Minelson · #19 06/18/13, 02:34 PM

Gosh darn it Jennifer

what a mess! He has to get milk either by tubing, bottle, teat, drench. How did you give him the nutridrench? Is he watching his sister drink from the bottle? Maybe he doesn't like the taste of the rubber or something...smear it with honey? I am just throwing out ideas. How about a regular human bottle with the hole made larger with an "X" cut.
So sorry you are going through this. I have no clue what is on her teats. Looks staph-ish which the chlorexidine will help. ((((hugs)))

Jenniferlynne13 · #20 06/18/13, 02:53 PM

I KNOW RIGHT????

I have tried the human baby bottle nipple...that is the one his sister LOVES....and I've tried one of the black gum one s that fit over a soda bottle ....he takes both with the same lack of enthusiasm......he's my little eeyore....kind of mopy, kind of droopy....

I took the nutri-drench pump and stuck it in the corner of his mouth and gave a pump....let him swallow it down....and then gave him a second pump....

I like the idea of smearing it with Honey....I'll try that.......

My old goat farmer friend is going to stop by in a few....he said he had some lamb nipples that we could try...and he also said he may have a trick or two up his sleeve that we could try....

The Chlorhexidine has already started to help ~! The bumps on her teats are smaller this afternoon...one already looks like it's drying out...

Just went out at noon and gave both teats another dunk into a dixie cup with the diluted solution (but i did make it just a little stronger...I used 3 tablespoons to the gallon of water vs 2)

I ordered a weak kid tube feeder that will be here on Thursday...so fingers crossed I can find a way to get that milk into him even if I have to hold him to the good teat just to get some in there...

Thanks for the hugs....I'm in need !!