Quantcast
Giving away goat with CL - any takers? - Homesteading Today
Homesteading Today

Come enter the Lehman's Aladdin Lamp Giveaway!

Go Back   Homesteading Today > Livestock Forums > Goats


Like Tree314Likes

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread
  #1  
Old 06/02/13, 01:56 PM
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 22
Giving away goat with CL - any takers?

I have a goat with several health issues, including a positive test for CL. I am keeping her until the baby is weaned in a couple weeks or so and have been treating a cluster of CL lumps with formalin to try and keep one from popping and contaminating the kid.

She has been quarantined away from the rest of my herd the two times CL flared up. She didn't have a baby the first time and was miserable but is better this time with the kid to keep her company. Since my plan is to remove the kid ASAP, I am going to either have to find her a new home or put her down. She was a wreck the first time I removed the kid for dehorning and such and went plowing through the electric fence.

Either way, she is a nice and friendly goat and I hate to just put her down. I am willing to give her away to anyone who isn't afraid of CL. The rest of my herd is clean and I would like to keep it that way. She is about 2 years old and recently kidded for the first time.

Conor

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06/02/13, 01:57 PM
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 22

I am in the Missouri Ozarks about 10 miles south of Rolla. Again, I plan to keep her another 10-14 days until I feel the kid can make it on its own, then get rid of her.

Conor

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06/02/13, 03:36 PM
Cyngbaeld's Avatar
homesteader
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Between Bryan and Austin, TX
Posts: 27,877

Better to put her down, IMHO. CL is nothing to fool with.

__________________

I believe in God's willingness to heal.

Cyngbaeld's Keep Heritage Farm, breeding a variety of historical birds and LaMancha goats.

Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06/02/13, 03:42 PM
Alice In TX/MO's Avatar
More dharma, less drama.
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Texas Coastal Bend/S. Missouri
Posts: 28,873

You want to give away a diseased goat? No thanks. Put her down.

Can you be sure that no one in the receiving family has an undiagnosed immune system disorder that makes them vulnerable?

Pony, yarrow, Cyngbaeld and 7 others like this.
__________________

Alice
* * *
"No great thing is created suddenly." ~Epictitus

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06/02/13, 04:35 PM
Pony's Avatar
Shifting My Paradigm
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Central Missouri
Posts: 18,793

You do not have a clean herd. You have CL on your premises.

It is often hard to do the right thing, but in this case, the right thing is to put that poor doe down. As it is, the kid you intend to keep is also at risk - as would be the family and land of anyone who took her in. You can only see the external abscesses. What about the internal ones?

You say you want someone "who isn't afraid of CL." We ALL should have a very healthy respect for this disease and yes, even a little fear.

Do the right thing. Don't try to pass your problem on to someone else.

__________________
Pony!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06/02/13, 07:36 PM
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 22

I have been told to put her down by all but one person. I know others that think CL isn't a huge deal but she has other health issues which would be minor on their own. It is just she had so many. I went ahead and vaccinated all my others with the sheep vaccine as soon as I saw a bump. This was before I had the lump lanced and tested at the vet. I gave her three doses of the vaccine as I knew she was pregnant and wanted immunity possibly passed along. The kid is probably too young for it to matter but I vaccinated her too at about 3 weeks.

Either way, how should I dispose of the carcass? Pile up all the cedars I don't want on my property and put her in the middle and light them on fire? I want this gone.

Conor

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06/02/13, 07:51 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Northwestern, WI
Posts: 1,643

So sorry, no one is trying to be harsh, but being realistic especially since she has other issues. Burning is probably the best as it can live in the soil for years given the right environment.

Kids' immune systems aren't mature enough to process vaccines until at least 8 to 10 to 12 weeks old depending on who you talk too. 3 weeks old and a vaccine probably would be a wash. Make sure you booster accordingly. The makers of the vaccine should be able to give you desired ages for inoculations.

I wish you well. No one wants to deal with a situation that may decimate our herd.

Pony, Cyngbaeld, nehimama and 3 others like this.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06/02/13, 08:18 PM
Alice In TX/MO's Avatar
More dharma, less drama.
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Texas Coastal Bend/S. Missouri
Posts: 28,873

My heart goes out to you. It's frightening and hard to deal with. Yessum, I'd give her a funeral pyre and remember the good things about her.

Huggs,
Alice

__________________

Alice
* * *
"No great thing is created suddenly." ~Epictitus

Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06/02/13, 08:41 PM
Pony's Avatar
Shifting My Paradigm
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Central Missouri
Posts: 18,793

I like Alice's use of "funeral pyre." That is a good way to look at it.

It is also a good way to deal with it. Fire purifies.

Really sorry you're going through this, and I did not mean to be harsh, but there are some things about which you must be decisive. Infectious disease is one of those things.

I hope you never ever see CL ever ever again.

__________________
Pony!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06/02/13, 10:03 PM
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: West Texas-we had rain!!
Posts: 645

So sorry

__________________
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06/03/13, 07:16 AM
Katie
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Twining, Mi.
Posts: 19,396

I agree with the others here, be thankful for what she's given you & give her a funeral like Alice suggested but I would No way want any CL goat near my farm.
Again not trying to be mean but putting her down is best all the way around.
I am so sorry your going through this though, heartbreaking I'm sure.

nehimama and harvestmoonfarm like this.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06/03/13, 11:21 AM
Registered Users
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 22

I know. The reality is harsh but I have pretty much made my decision to put her down when the baby is weaned. I plan to booster the baby with vaccine at least two more times as I know that 3 weeks likely did little, if any good. It was the last dose in the vial and I figured I would go ahead and use it.

I am hoping that I have this pretty well contained by having her in quarantine. My only fear would be an internal abscess allowed this to come out through droppings or urine.

I am going to keep the baby and keep an eye on her. I know this can remain latent for quite some time and how long is normal?

I am going to start cutting some more cedars so that they are semi-dried out in a couple weeks when I have to do this.

Thanks,

Conor

nehimama likes this.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06/03/13, 01:52 PM
Minelson's Avatar  
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 24,098

There is a CL vaccine for goats now...
http://www.jefferspet.com/cl-bacteri...40569/cn/3301/

So sorry you are going through this....

nehimama likes this.
__________________

Teach only Love...for that is what You are

Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06/03/13, 02:53 PM
kandmcockrell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Northern Neck, VA
Posts: 897

Any idea why the vaccine is restricted in so many states?
I would like to order it but i am in VA and it says it is restricted.

__________________

If you like fresh oysters, drop on by our website. We ship all over th US.
www.bayoyster.biz

Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06/03/13, 03:13 PM
lasergrl's Avatar
Lasergrl
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Geauga County, Ohio
Posts: 1,629

Get rid of the baby too if you honestly don't want anymore cl. Sorry but drinking from the udder is rather bad, at exposing them. At the very least I would wean her now no matter the age. Tube feed her if you have too, she is either young enough to take a bottle or old enough to eat good grain and browse.

Pony and Cyngbaeld like this.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 06/03/13, 05:31 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,569

My only suggestion would be to talk to your vet and seek REAL, professional advice about CL, CAE, etc. Most of what you are reading on message boards is completely false. Talk to someone who actually went to medical school before you let a bunch of strangers scare the bejeebers out of you on various message boards over this. You know, almost 80% + of all goat herds in this nation are exposed to CL. And yet, not everyone is dying willy nilly in the human realm from the disease. Talk to your vet. He actually has medical license, and can give you facts instead of just gossip.

Crazy Farmgirl and MirandaT like this.
__________________

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06/03/13, 05:37 PM
Alice In TX/MO's Avatar
More dharma, less drama.
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Texas Coastal Bend/S. Missouri
Posts: 28,873

I deleted my original opening statement so that I don't get into trouble. I will say that the poster above is incorrect.

Nobody SAID people were dying willy nilly.

Read the Merck Manual online.

80% is not accurate, either. Good grief.

What it boils down to is that dairy goat folks who KNOW what it is do not want it in their herds. Period.

Pony, dbarjacres, yarrow and 12 others like this.
__________________

Alice
* * *
"No great thing is created suddenly." ~Epictitus

Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 06/03/13, 05:53 PM
Pony's Avatar
Shifting My Paradigm
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Central Missouri
Posts: 18,793

Thank you, Alice. You saved me a lot of grief (and perhaps deletion) over what I was going to post.

The person who posted the nay-saying about concerns over CL doesn't realize that the US herds that have CL would not have CL a high incidence if everyone culled aggressively. The numbers in the UK are much lower. Why? Because they don't tolerate the spread of the disease.

And as Alice quite accurately points out, what it boils down to is, people who have seen it in their and other herds, people who have witnessed and experienced the devastation of CL, do NOT want it in their herds, and will not knowingly take in such animals.

__________________
Pony!
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 06/03/13, 05:53 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,569

I'm sorry Alice. I didn't realize you had a vet's license. I'm not that familiar with all the people's professions on here.

__________________

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 06/03/13, 05:57 PM
Pony's Avatar
Shifting My Paradigm
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Central Missouri
Posts: 18,793
Quote:
Originally Posted by mekasmom View Post
I'm sorry Alice. I didn't realize you had a vet's license.
Oh, do you? Really?

Have you even worked as a veterinary technician? What exactly is your field, that you can call into question a person's experience?

And will you tell us all, please, where you found all these educated veterinarians who are so loaded with knowledge of goats and zoonotic disease? They seem to be as scarce as hen's teeth.
__________________
Pony!
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 06/03/13, 06:01 PM
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,569
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pony View Post
Oh, do you? Really?
No I don't have a medical license. That is why I suggested she get advice from someone who did actually go to medical school.
I do know what I learned in the short time I worked for a vet. And I believe it is always best to contact a professional over matters like these. There are many, many false beliefs that are spread by the web that just don't bear out in medical reports. It's always best to talk to a professional when it comes to things like this. They did go to medical school, and it saves so much terror in people when they have facts instead of opinions.
Crazy Farmgirl likes this.
__________________

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 06/03/13, 06:18 PM
Alice In TX/MO's Avatar
More dharma, less drama.
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Texas Coastal Bend/S. Missouri
Posts: 28,873

You know, Meka, I really do NOT have to cite credentials when you pick a fight and badmouth people here and advocate the idea that the disease is unavoidable or inconsequential. NOBODY advocated terror. They advocated eliminating the diseased animal.

I will tell you that I talked to a local veterinarian last week extensively about CL. I called the Missouri State University's vet clinic last week about CL. A friend had a scare with an abscess that turned out NOT be be CL, but I've had conversations with real veterinarians that recently.

If you don't want to read about those of us who don't want CL in our herds, then you have the option of skipping these threads.

If you sell milk, can you be sure that no consumer has a yet-undiagnosed immune system issue? The veterinarian at MSU said that AIDS patients, cancer patients, and immune suppressed individuals are at risk to contracting CL from milk produced by does with lesions in their udders. As soon as milk goes out your door to a customer, you don't know who is going to drink it. Do you want to have that kind of responsibility?

In my immediate family, my husband is immune suppressed due to a kidney transplant, my grandson spent six years in cancer treatment, and my best friend had scleroderma that went undiagnosed for years. So, consuming potentially infected milk would be dangerous for them. The possible consequences are that close to home with me.

If you want to talk to a vet, here's the number for MSU's vet clinic. 573 882 5503 They will say the SAME THINGS that we say. The vet I talked to (who has goats) said she'd put a positive goat down, too.

You don't want CL in your herd.

Pony, yarrow, Cyngbaeld and 16 others like this.
__________________

Alice
* * *
"No great thing is created suddenly." ~Epictitus

Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 06/03/13, 06:34 PM
yarrow's Avatar
Ages Ago Acres Nubians
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: MO Ozarks
Posts: 2,471

when I read posts like this...got to tell you..that I always find myself wondering about the CL status of that poster's herd....80%???..seriously doubt it...I have had goats for 10 years..have never actually seen a case of CL in person..just online...but I also try very hard to avoid herds who carry "cooties"

susie...who would cull her ENTIRE herd and never own another goat if she ever had CL show up

__________________

"My darling girl, when are you going to understand that "normal" is not necessarily a virtue? It rather denotes a lack of courage."
http://www.agesagoacresnubians.com/

Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 06/03/13, 06:53 PM
Pony's Avatar
Shifting My Paradigm
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Central Missouri
Posts: 18,793

<standing ovation for Alice and Yarrow>

__________________
Pony!
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 06/03/13, 06:54 PM
Pony's Avatar
Shifting My Paradigm
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Central Missouri
Posts: 18,793

Oh. Almost forgot.

<standing ovation for Cwatkin doing the right thing even though it hurts>

__________________
Pony!
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 06/03/13, 07:19 PM
harvestmoonfarm's Avatar
Louisa, VA
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: VA
Posts: 802

I bought an ND doe a few years ago (my second goat ever) that had a lump on her jaw. I was naive and had never heard of CL. As soon as I found out what it could *possibly* be, I had my husband put a bullet in that doe's head and burn the body. I WILL NOT take that kind of risk with my animals, much less my family!

Pony, nehimama and DamnearaFarm like this.
__________________

~Trish~
http://harvestmoon-farm.blogspot.com/

Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 06/04/13, 05:57 AM
Hannah90's Avatar  
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Iowa
Posts: 647

To the OP- I am so very sorry you're dealing with this. This situation is quite close to home right now as I just had to give away my dearest Pearl because she had CL. She was one of my first two goats and she was and still is very special to me. She wound up going back to the friend from which I bought her. Now that I'm looking back on it, I wish I had actually just put her down. Actually, as soon as she left my farm, I wish I had put her down.

In my thinking, it is our responsibility to stop these diseases that are so darn rampant in the goat world BECAUSE folks aren't willing to cull. Culling is part of the game. If you're going to breed, you better be prepared for it. I became very angry about these diseases after my experience with Pearl, but then I realized I am part of the problem. Heidi begged me not to put her down. Begged me so much that she finally offered to take her back with tears in her eyes. Of course, there were tears in mine too. Pearl gets to live, but who else is she infecting? Now, I am a complete spaz about buying a new goat. Where have they been? Even if they are disease tested, the tests for CL are notoriously unreliable. So even if they are tested your (or my) favorite goat may have it anyway because we humans aren't being very responsible in our goat husbandry.

I respect you, OP for making the hard choice. Doing what *I* should have done. I know now, that if CL ever appears in my herd again, that animal and any of her kids will be culled. It makes tear up just thinking about it. But, if I want to be in this game, I want to be in it to make it better, not worse.

Attached Images
 
yarrow, nehimama, Minelson and 1 others like this.
__________________

“If people let the government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as a sorry state as the souls who live under tyranny." ~ Thomas Jefferson.

Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 06/04/13, 06:47 AM
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 8,569
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alice In TX/MO View Post
You know, Meka, I really do NOT have to cite credentials when you pick a fight and badmouth people here and advocate the idea that the disease is unavoidable or inconsequential.
I wasn't rude. I think you should reread my posts and yours. Compare the two for attitude. Like I said, I had no idea that you had a medical degree? I don't, but that is why I directed her to a real vet.

A licensed vet with a medical degree is more educated and better able to help someone than lay-people on the internet. It is unkind to spread fear the way it is all over the web, not just here, but all over when speaking to a real medical professional would put so much of it to rest. And I'm sure her stock is worth $ too, so I wouldn't want to convince her to destroy valuable stock unless I was a licensed vet who actually knew what I was talking about.

As far as medical tests and studies, Google Scholar has a lot about CL studies. It would be a better resource than lay people too.

To the OP-- I realize you have $ into your animals. My suggestion would be to get the advice of a professional, licensed vet before making decisions based on suggestions from lay people from the internet. So much of what is put on the web is simply not true. Most goat herds in this nation are exposed to CL. Don't just throw away all your money due to that exposure. Talk to a vet who really does know what he is talking about based on his profession and credentials before making a final decision. You don't want to throw away money needlessly if it is unnecessary. But only a true medical professional would be able to give you a real medical critique.
Crazy Farmgirl likes this.
__________________

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 06/04/13, 07:03 AM
Alice In TX/MO's Avatar
More dharma, less drama.
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Texas Coastal Bend/S. Missouri
Posts: 28,873

The tone of your post was confrontational, offensive, and tacky. As a former English teacher and debate coach, I could quote your post and point out each incident, but I think you are capable of seeing what others saw in your post. My phone started ringing with goat folks outraged at your post.

We are not spreading fear. I said that.

Here's the Merck Manual link that says CULL after it addresses the other options. As this is the veterinarian's handbook, I consider it a valuable authority.
http://www.merckmanuals.com/vet/circ...l?qt=&sc=&alt=

If I have time later, I'll post some more links to authoritative information.

Again, the bottom line is whether a goat owner wants and clean herd and to help eradicate this disease or to be part of the problem in perpetuating it.

Pony, Cyngbaeld, KrisD and 2 others like this.
__________________

Alice
* * *
"No great thing is created suddenly." ~Epictitus

Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 06/04/13, 07:07 AM
Alice In TX/MO's Avatar
More dharma, less drama.
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Texas Coastal Bend/S. Missouri
Posts: 28,873

LSU's paper (about sheep) which recommends testing every six months and culling positive animals until the herd is clear.

http://text.lsuagcenter.com/NR/rdonl...tsJuly2010.pdf

For those who don't want to read the whole link, it *does* address having a positive herd and a negative herd, but the final paragraph in the treatment section summarizes that if you want to eliminate the disease, test and cull every six months until the herd is clean.

Pony, Cyngbaeld, KrisD and 1 others like this.
__________________

Alice
* * *
"No great thing is created suddenly." ~Epictitus

Reply With Quote
Reply



Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Virgin goat giving milk????? flarytails Goats 8 05/23/11 04:31 PM
Spring Goat Clinic in Ohio billooo2 Goats 2 04/02/11 07:10 AM
I'm at Wits End with SCOURING GOAT HELP!!!!!!! TSYORK Goats 44 10/15/06 01:29 PM
Very sick mama goat! Newtogoats Goats 24 08/21/06 07:07 PM
I'm entertaining the idea of getting a milk goat Fla Gal Goats 13 07/28/06 10:51 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:41 PM.