UPDATE to lost cute baby, another goat killed!

nathan104 · #1 05/31/13, 11:55 AM

I posted yesterday about losing our 3 week old kid and having two others attacked. Well, I set up snares and leg traps yesterday and just went to check them. Found our big momma goat dead and entirely eaten, just bones and her head left and yeet another with a bite on heer back leg. She was our best producing doe that we lost. We are crushed.

Several of my snares ere pushed aside and I found 3 more scoot areas under the fence I didnt see yesterday. Im still looking for a LGD but need something done NOW. Im penning up whats left of our goats close to the house, and trying to get someone to come in to predatorr call and kill tonight. Havent had a problem in the two years they have been over there and all the sudden in two nights we have two dead and three attacked.

We are giving cd&t shots to the three that are bitten, is that the correct thing to give them?

DaniR1968 · #2 05/31/13, 12:05 PM

Oh, no, I'm so sorry!

I'm not sure how many goats you have but maybe a couple of cattle panels to make a small pen for them. Are they being attacked at night or during the day? Night would suggest coyote but could be dogs. Day time would suggest dogs.

It is hard to find an adult LGD. You might have to see if you can find a pup. It really does not take them long to deter predators. My girl stopped my chicken killing dog from killing anything when she was only 4 or 5 months old. By that time I was also no longer loosing chickens to raccoon or other 4 legged predators. It took her a bit longer to watch out for hawks. Fortunately, even though there are coyotes in the woods behind us, they have never been a threat to my goats, but I am sure Lucy would take them on.

I hope you don't loose any more.

o&itw · #3 05/31/13, 12:29 PM

I think you need to need to pen the goats up close to a building and spend the night there with a rifle. If you have a spot light, and you can't see well enough to shoot, you can see whether they are dog or coyotes and at least chase them a way.

Penning them up in a building would be better.

Wonderland · #4 05/31/13, 12:36 PM

So sorry about this! I would just get a puppy; the sooner you have a puppy, the sooner you will also have a trained adult.

Is there any way you can lock them in your barn at night? If not, I think moving them closer to the house is a good idea.

If the animal avoided your traps, it is probably a wild predator. I would guess coyote, especially with them going under the fence and not over, and also eating the prey in the pen and not dragging it away. Dogs I don't think would be wary of traps unless they had been in one before, but I could be wrong. Cougars typically drag prey away, but that doesn't 100% rule them out.

My only ideas for solving the problem would be doing as you suggested and hiding out to shoot them when they come up. You could also try poison if there is no risk of one of your own animals eating it. With your snares, work really hard to conceal them and to keep your scent off of them. Motion lights or a radio might also help, but the predators will eventually get used to it.

nathan104 · #5 05/31/13, 01:27 PM

Just finished doctoring the hurt goats. The injuries were worse than I thought One has a big ripped puncture wound as deep and big and my pinky going into it right ham. and second has the same wound but half as deep and the third got it on the inside of its back leg. We cleaned them real good with iodine surgical scrub and got it down into the wounds, gave them cd&t shots, and each a dose of LA-200 and an oral nutrient drench and probios.

The big goat last night was killed about 20 yards from the road which is 3o yard in front of our house. We found its stomach right there and it was dragged another 30 yards away and picked clean. Only thing left is the instact legs from knees down, and from the neck up, the rest is picked clean skeleton. The nexk has no injuries, so I rule out mt lion/big cat. Only thing I can guess is coyotes, pack of dogs. It was at night. I just cant believe they came all thee way up from the back of the pasture to kill and eat that goat right by the road, our house, and our dogs even though they cant get over into that field.

I have the goats penned up with 5' tall small square cattle panels right against the road. Hopefully they wwill be safe tonight.

I am trying to get someone out tonight to use a predator call and do some killing. Also going to set snares on the areas under the fence I missed yesterday.

mahnah · #6 05/31/13, 01:50 PM

Hope you get them and don't lose anymore do you have a building you can put them in tonight while hunting the offending creatures?

Minelson · #7 05/31/13, 02:28 PM

Oh no!! How horrible! I'm so sorry

I would keep the injured on antibiotics for at least a week. Bites are nasty and abcess very easily. I would flush the wounds at least once or twice a day with Chlorehexidine diluted to a pale swimming pool blue. Just use a needle less syringe and squirt it into any holes to flush. The cd& t shot is for overeating disease with tetanus. Poor babies! I bet they are freaked out! Hopefully you will find the monster and kill it!

nathan104 · #8 05/31/13, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minelson

. The cd& t shot is for overeating disease with tetanus. !

Its tetanus Im wanting to prevent. Many years ago I watched a goat die from tetanus as a result of a prior dog bit. It wasnt a pretty sight. We keep them on a good schedule with cd/t shots but hoped the booster would help prevent tetanus from the bite just in case.

dozedotz · #9 05/31/13, 02:56 PM

Sounds to me like you have done all the medical stuff right...agree with Min that you will need to follow up (but suspect you know that). Get a dog!!! Get 2 dogs!! Even a pup (s) (obviously not infants) will bark and warn you. You are going to be up all night for a while anyway! The dogs will know "they" are there before you do!

nathan104 · #10 05/31/13, 03:15 PM

I gave them the CD/T shots after cleaning the wounds but after reading online it looks like I should have given them Tetanus antitoxin instead of the cd/t as its a toxid not an antitoxin? If so, can I still give them antitoxen on top of the cd/t shots or should I just wait.
they have been vaccinated routinely in the past with cd/t, so hopefully that can cover them.

I just dont see putting a 6-8 week old puppy over there with them as if a 120 lbs goat is taken down and eaten, it doesnt seem like a small puppy would do anything but get killed itself.

If I cant get out a predator hunter tonight, Im setting more snares and Ill be sitting out there tonight.

Ford Zoo · #11 05/31/13, 03:33 PM

Giving antitoxin after toxoid should be OK.

Hopefully you can figure this out and stop being a target.

An adult coyote can squeeze thru a 6"X6" hole like those in some fences and panels; and they are difficult to trap if you are not experienced in it. Their sense of smell generally gives away a trap. Get a squeeker call and try that to bring them in.

Can you close the goats up in a building at night?

nathan104 · #12 05/31/13, 03:45 PM

Ive got someone coming over this evening with a varmint call to try and kill whatever this is. Theyve killed two nights in a row, Im guessing they will be back again tonigght.

Dont have a way of shutting them up inside. The pen they are in has 4"x4" squares, but if something is determined, I guess they could go over the 5' height, or dig under the panels. But, we will be setting right by them tonight.

Will get some tetanus antitoxin and give it to them this evening. Also plan on packing the one goats real deep puncture wound for a couple days with guaze to help it heal from the inside. Will change out the packing every day.

My snares are sterilized and I used gloves when putting them out. Will be putting out more leg traps and snares here in a bit. Im determined to get these sorry suckers.

Wonderland · #13 05/31/13, 04:03 PM

It sounds like you've got a good plan going for catching them. I hope you get whatever predator(s) is responsible! Good luck!

myheaven · #14 05/31/13, 04:05 PM

Make sure your smell is covered. They are darn smart!

Pony · #15 05/31/13, 04:05 PM

Oh. My.

I am so very, very sorry! What a nightmare...

What o&itw said is about right: Pen them up best you can, and stay up with your gun.

I've not heard of having someone come out with varmint calls. Is that something local to your area, or...?

dozedotz · #16 05/31/13, 04:06 PM

Sounds like you have a plan, Nathan.
As far as the antitoxin vs the toxoid, you might want to consult a vet.
My understanding (never had this particular experience) is that if you have given the full compliment of CD/T shots and kept the boosters up in an animal then your goats should be safe from Tetanus. Sometimes people have to give the antitoxin to goats that are all up to date and boostered because the animal gets entero from a source that is not affected by the CD/T...not because the goat is exposed to a Tetanus possibility. On the other hand, how can it hurt?...other than (my understanding) it negates the CD/T.
Again, no first hand experience...if anyone has a different understanding that would help us all, please jump in!
Agree that a 6 week old pup is not going to get the job done!! I was thinking that perhaps someone near you had a pup about 4 or 5 months old that has been working with parents, but is still training. That pup would warn you and would probably go after whatever this is...so, might have to be in with the goats at night to protect the pup, too! That might not be what you were thinking about with a dog. Good Luck! Hope you get 'um!

Ford Zoo · #17 05/31/13, 05:03 PM

Do you have a truck with a topper or a garage you could put them in over night? I would be very worried that thing is coming back. Probably has babies to feed?

Pony, varmint calls have been around a long time, just probably called different things depending on where you are. Squeekers, squeelers, distressed bunny call, fawn calls....

Ford Zoo · #18 05/31/13, 05:07 PM

And I hate to say this, especially since I'm sure you love your goaties as much as I do....Take what is left of the carcass and use it as bait.

Good luck and be safe. Do you have trail cams to put up?

I hope you can find a pup/dog. A pup will grow fast and before you know it will be large enough to have a good bark and ward off nasty predators. (But I understand your concern with the safety of a pup)

Wolfy-hound · #19 05/31/13, 06:02 PM

I wonder if it's not a coyote if it ate 100 lbs of goat in one night. Most dogs I had encounters with weren't too interested in eating the animals, just killing them. A pack of coyotes? Maybe something larger like a small bear?

I hope you catch it! It must be really distressing to lose so much suddenly. I hope your goats recover without any issues too.

wendle · #20 05/31/13, 06:37 PM

It could be a mom coyote with pups. Before I had lgds a perfectly healthy adult sheep could be just a hide and backbone overnight. Have you tried running some hot wire top and bottom in a tight pen, like cattle panels or high woven wire? At least you might put the goats up at night. You might also look into electronet outside the goat fencing. They sell it in a variety of heights, very tall for poultry, and up to about 48" for sheep/goats. It might be helpful to section off a small lot, and would be a good deterrent. It isn't cheap, but is easy to put up and very portable. One down side to the electronet is that the goats could be spooked through it. I have had that happen. It would be more to keep coyotes from getting close. Make sure the goats are in a solid fence. You could look into a lgd, but it's going to take close to a year before you can expect him to be mature enough to be much of a deterrent. You sure don't want a little pup to try and take on a pack of coyotes. Lights on at night are good, and of course hunting them.