A Deal Too Good To Be True

SkeeterBlue · #1 05/04/13, 11:21 PM

I have a potential problem and I need some guidance.

I purchased 3 goats: 1 Saanan doeling (from registered CL, CAE, Johnes free herd), 1 Nigerian doeling and 1 Nigerian buckling (from registered CL, CAE, Johnes free herd). All of these come from superior lines and I'm expecting good things down the road from them.

My husband, bless him, never being one to pass up a good deal, bought 3 goats off of craigslist. I'm not sure what they are, pygmy/nigerian mixed probably, 1 doeling, 2 wethers. The guy that bred them doesn't even know what they are. They are on pasture and the guy that has them says he's just wormed them. I think hubby paid between $50-75 each for them.

(I won't even begin to tell him what I paid for the other three!)

In the photos below the first three are the three I bought. The fourth picture is of the group of kids from which my hubby purchased 3. They don't look all that bad, but I dunno. I'm probably overthinking this and worrying too much. I'm just not sure.

What should I do and what would you do in my shoes? I don't want to hurt my husband's feelings around this. It was hard enough to get his enthusiasm about homesteading at all.

ksalvagno · #2 05/04/13, 11:25 PM

Can you keep them separate until they are old enough to be tested?

They look to be in good health and are very cute. Since your husband was excited about it and bought them, I would probably try to find a way to keep them so he stays interested in the goats. He was probably trying hard to make you happy too.

CraterCove · #3 05/04/13, 11:39 PM

Oh, little Saanen is so pretty! But yes, I would do my best to stay positive and encourage. Those other little one's look reasonable good and they are cute if somewhat clone-ish in their similarity at first glance. If they don't test well then you have some cute little goat chops. Just keep them separate from your tested stock!

SkeeterBlue · #4 05/05/13, 12:57 AM

Luckily the three hubby bought (he named them Misty, Rudolph, and Stormy) are older than the three I purchased. Hopefully it won't be long before I can test.

I am trying to keep hubby engaged, but I did warn him that we can't know what the unknown doeling's milk will be like until we try it and told him to not get discouraged if it wasn't as good as we expect to get from the others. She is the oldest, so if we breed her she will provide the first goat milk he's ever tasted. He's okay with that.

So, questions: At what age can I test them? What is the procedure for testing? Is there any lab that will test for the big three on a single blood draw

And thanks for your help!

Jyllie63 · #5 05/05/13, 06:29 AM

the are all adorable!

Minelson · #6 05/05/13, 07:41 AM

unfortunately Johnes testing is done when they are at least 1.5 years old. The latest article I read said 2 years. But they are working on a new testing method for it. Can you set something up for long term separation?
Waddle has a good deal for a biosecurity test where they test for all 3 diseases for around 25 bucks...You will have to get blood from all three...three separate tubes.
http://www.vetmed.wsu.edu/depts_waddl/fees.aspx

They are all adorable babies!! Lucky you and what a kind hearted hubby!

SkeeterBlue · #7 05/05/13, 09:30 AM

Texas A&M Vet labs has a pcr test for Johnes. It is not approved for goats, and it is kind of expensive at $36. But there is no reason I can think of that it wouldn't pick up the organism in a goat as well as it does in a cow. I'm reading up more on it. There has to be a better way to test for this than waiting until the animal is clinical and has infected everyone else.

Minelson · #8 05/05/13, 09:33 AM

Here is a thread from the other day about new testing for Johnes
New Johnes test

SkeeterBlue · #9 05/05/13, 09:45 AM

Thank you for the link. This is an antibody test, so even if it were available I'd have to wait until the kids are 18 months old and producing antibodies. Sigh.

How old are they typically when they start shedding the organism if they have the disease?

ksalvagno · #10 05/05/13, 09:47 AM

You can test for CAE and CL at 6 months of age. You can draw the blood yourself and send it in to WADDL.

Minelson · #11 05/05/13, 09:47 AM

I don't think there is a cut and dry age...
here is another good webiste for info...
http://www.johnes.org/general/faqs.html

SkeeterBlue · #12 05/05/13, 11:02 AM

Thanks, I did read all of that site, Minelson. I think I may have to sell these three. We don't have room enough currently to separate them out. I really don't want to wait until after the fact if they should be infected. By the time I can find out they would already be shedding potentially. We'll figure out what is best to do, but I just can't see risking it by keeping them.

I'll probably steer hubby to a better selection. We really were only looking for a wether to keep the buckling company. And I know just the lady to have a nice snubian wether for sale (from her tested herd).

Cannon_Farms · #13 05/05/13, 12:07 PM

Though I would personally sell them and purchase one that would suit your target goals and use it as a teaching goal for your husband, explain this is what you are trying to do and they dont go with your goals and then the disease testing, hes a man not a boy he may have hurt feelings but should be able to understand the greater good.
As far as Johnes its a scary thing, for the fact you can not say your herd is 100% negitive for it or CL because it can be hidden until there is a problem to which only then may they test positive. Do I test for them yes, to I say even though they are negative that my herd is free of those two is misleading in my opinion.
Its a tough call but its only yours to make.

Minelson · #14 05/05/13, 12:15 PM

I really understand where you are coming from...My hubby accuses me of always not liking his ideas so I try to be so careful when responding to his stupid ideas. lol!! But if he went out and bought any kind of animal for the homestead I would be deeply touched because I would know he was doing it for me. kwim? This is too serious of a situation though since you have those 3 tested ones with great plans for them. So I think the question may be how to gently break the news to him that it's just not going to work. Tell him what happened to me and the ongoing consequences I am struggling with. It sounds like a similar situation that I bought Gretta from. She looked healthy, the place was nice and clean, all the animals looked very loved. I just didn't know anything about these deadly diseases. I didn't know anything about goats period! I did know that they shouldn't be fed dog food though like the seller told me I could do...ha! Instead of a red flag going up I thought well I will give her a much better home.

But risking what you have just for a needed wether does not sound like a good idea. Be sure to tell him how cute they are though and how you could see why he got them. Hopefully he will understand. Guys can be so dang sensitive!

((((hugs))) Keep us posted.

SkeeterBlue · #15 05/05/13, 10:35 PM

I talked to him a little about it this afternoon. I didn't get a chance to really sit with him and hear him out. I'm hoping he will be ready to talk about it soon. I did lay out the options and that keeping them all together is not one of them. I told him I wish we had known about how tough this disease is before we bought any goats.

SkeeterBlue · #16 05/05/13, 11:23 PM

We talked a little. He took it much better than I thought he would. He's currently trying to think of how we can give them separate quarters. I'd like to not bring them on the property at all and thereby sidestep the issue. We have a little time to decide. I suggested perhaps he could see if we can get a refund and let the fellow sell them to someone else. I'm sure he will be mulling things around a bit.

I want to thank you all for your excellent suggestions, your advice, and sharing your own experience with me. This is just a tough thing to deal with. But I think better to deal with it now than down the road.