Rhaps/Mia updates

GoldenWood Farm · #1 04/11/13, 01:06 PM

Okay instead of posting on two different threads I am just going to put their updates here. Lord help me it was a LOONG night!

**Rhaps Update**

Okay I went 5 1/2hrs now on the PG and will Rhaps wasn't as perky as she was earlier this morning she was by no means where she was last night. I am going to keep a STRICT eye on her and continue the PG like I said through the weekend. She wasn't interested in any grain this morning though which I don't like. I might give her another shot of Vit. B Complex and get some more probios down her throat.

**Mia Update**

Poor Mia has the runs now

. She isn't bloated anymore thank heavens but she isn't as perky as I would like to see her. I gave her some canned pumpkin with probiotics in it to help sooth her gut and hopefully stop up some of the diarrhea. She doesn't seem any closer to delivering though I wish she would just go into labor already. Her belly hasn't dropped and her udder while it is filling up a slight bit is no where close to being full. She has a strange gate when she walks as well in the back end which is making me super nervous

. It could just be kids pinching a nerve but with everything that has gone on in the past 12-18hrs I am a wreck.

**The rest of the pregnant doe updates**

I am about to fall over from all the stress! I am now on EXTRA red alert with all the does and I can't help but thinking what else will go wrong. I still am watching Zoe Bird (the doe who came down with a severe fever), she is due tomorrow and she hasn't even really started bagging up yet though her ligs are getting looser. I am trying not to freak out and assume the worse since she hasn't bagged up yet.

Penny who is due the 14th seems the closest to going into labor. Her belly dropped yesterday, udder started filling up and she is starting to get slightly looser ligaments. Between her and Trinket they are the only two does who HAVEN'T had problems yet.

I am praying it isn't because of how I am doing my feeding program now that I am having all these dang problems

. I thought I was doing the right thing and doing good but now I am questioning it. The 2yr olds who are on the same feeding program had text book kiddings and haven't had a problem with their milk productions yet. So I don't THINK it is my feeding program, but I can't help but second guess myself.

I AM being a good goat mom right ladies? This is just one of those fluke things that happens

.

Justine

Bearfootfarm · #2 04/11/13, 01:10 PM

Quote:

I might give her another shot of Vit. B Complex

Vitamin B is water soluble.
It needs to be given every day (or even twice a day) until symptoms are gone because any excess leaves the body quickly

I also think she'd be better off having Calcium Gluconate instead of Propylene Glycol

http://www.goatworld.com/articles/pr...ytoxemia.shtml

Quote:

The key to treating toxemia is catching the subtle symptoms promptly. Fist concern is to hydrate the doe and get enough sugars to the brain to get if functioning properly. We have been successful treating does with 50% Dextrose solution and magic. We give 20cc magic two to four times daily at first signs of toxemia.

If the doe is completely off feed or becoming lethargic we give 4 ounces 50% dextrose (1/2 dextrose, ½ water) with 3cc B Complex, 500mg thiamin, 50cc Calcium Glutamate (orally) and probiotics.

The dextrose solution is repeated every hour until the doe is standing, drinking, and urinating. We have also found it helpful to give water (drench if necessary) at every treatment. Once these does quit moving, they don't get up and drink, as they should. We give one pint of water with every treatment.

Lorelai · #3 04/11/13, 01:23 PM

A kind soul told me recently that reaching out and trying to find the answers is being a good goat mom. For what it's worth, I think you're being a wonderful goat mom! It's a testament to how well you know your goats, and to your experience, that you were able to catch the pregnancy toxemia so early, isn't it? I know I failed at that myself, but it also happened in my first ever doe due to kid. I hope I'm wiser now!

I sat down and had a heart to heart with Prima yesterday about "goat" being synonymous with "contrary." She didn't disagree. I think they are always going to be testing us, no matter what we do.

I know it isn't easy, but try to take a deep breath, and don't drink too much coffee.

It doesn't help with the adrenaline, or the mind going a mile a minute. Do what you can, and live peacefully with what's left. You're an excellent goat mom!!!

Minelson · #4 04/11/13, 01:49 PM

This is really a fluke Justine....You are a great goat mama!! An excellent one...up there with the best!! I'm sorry you are having problems with these two especially so close to delivery. The runny poops that Mia has is probably from the mineral oil. When I oiled my goats (after they ate the insulation) they had runny poops for a couple of days. Kinda like when people eat greasy, fast food. She is probably mopey for several reasons...1. she is pregnant 2. she is due now. 3. she is huge as a house 4. she has the runs. 5. She got bloated on top of being as huge as a house. are just a few reasons.
Everyone (mostly you) is tired. Things get wonky when tired. get some rest and try to think positive!

(((((hugs))))) and prayers!

mamahen · #5 04/11/13, 02:22 PM

I'm glad they're holding for you!

Just thinking out loud here.....what if it's something "in" the feed? These are older girls, right? Maybe the 2 yo's were in better shape to begin with and something was lacking or left out in the feed mixture? Do you buy premixed feed? Like I said, just thinking.....

Not sure about the fever, though? We've had really funky weather (like every where else in the country!) Like snow a couple weeks ago and it was over 80 yesterday, went to 66 last night and this weekend the low's will be in the upper 20's

....I've been waiting for pneumonia in my younger critters.

GoldenWood Farm · #6 04/11/13, 03:31 PM

Thank you Michelle...I started tearing up when I read your post. Mamahen their feed is a mixture I do myself, whole oats, rolled barley and sunflower seeds.

***Mia update***
While the poor girl isn't comfortable she is actually laying chewing her cud

. That is a GOOD sign!

***Rhaps update***
I am going to be inducing her today. She is not where I want her to be and I just talked with a vet. I am picking up the stuff to induce in a few minutes and I will continue giving her PG every three hours until she kids (and after if need be). Susie could I perhaps get your number so I could call if I have any questions? I hate to keep bothering vets and I know you induce every doe. I can use all support I can get on this

.

Justine

yarrow · #7 04/11/13, 03:38 PM

of course you can have my number...call anytime..even during the night..phone is by the bed...
417-778-1766.... is the vet giving you BOTH dex and lute??? ask for both...a ENTIRE bottle of each is only 20dollars...tell them you want full bottles..not just a dose...just a good thing to have on hand.

susie

Minelson · #8 04/11/13, 03:39 PM

SO glad that Mia is better! Chewing cud yay!!! Keep us posted on the progress with Rhaps

GoldenWood Farm · #9 04/11/13, 03:41 PM

Vet is only getting me Dex I believe. I am not sure I can get a dose of lute...I don't have the cash until tomorrow to get a full bottle of both. I can get some lute if I need from a goat gal who lives close to me though if I need to.

Justine
ps: THANK YOU Susie! I feel MUCH better being able to have someone I can call in am emergency.

yarrow · #10 04/11/13, 03:58 PM

you HAVE to have lute to induce...the dex alone is NOT induction protocol for goats...is this the same vet that thought u only needed to give nuflor once? ...shivers... ARE you SURE she is really toxic??

susie

GoldenWood Farm · #11 04/11/13, 05:05 PM

*sigh* I could only get Dex from the vet. In answer to your question Susie, no this is a different vet that I had to deal with today. I called my goat gal that I know and hopefully I hear back from her soon and I can get some Lute. This is SO frustrating! I want to have a good rapport with my vets hence why I am trying to work with them.

Yep I am pretty much 100% sure it is pregnancy toxemia. She started responding to treatment within minutes and all the signs point to it now. I just have never dealt with it in my herd so I honestly didn't know I was looking at really early warning signs. I just want to get my poor girl induced and have her kid out safely

.

I really really wish the vets around here worked more freely with us.

Justine

yarrow · #12 04/11/13, 05:26 PM

I honestly have no clue IF the dex alone (given) just once will even work...there is no way I can even begin to help with WHEN...as in how many hours after giving it she might deliver...we know with the lute/dex combo..it'30-36 hours...closer to 30 the better chance for an easy delivery..pass 37 expect possible problems... if her toxemia is bad enough your vet feels she needs to deliver...I can't understand why you were not given the correct drug to do it with?...will dex cause a doe to abort? sometimes,...but I wouldn't even want to guess HOW much you would have to give or HOW long it would take for labor to start or what shape the kids will be in...

I know how much you love your girls and want the best for them..I think you and your girl deserve a fair chance at getting her into labor and the kids here in a timely manner.

susie

GoldenWood Farm · #13 04/11/13, 05:30 PM

I am waiting to hear back from my goat friend. She told me before I could get lute from her, I just have to wait until she gets off work. I refuse to give Dex alone, I was to dang tired to fight with the vets and emotional. I am not only dealing with sick goats but some hard family issues so my fighting reserves are running rather dry

.

I will keep you updated on when I finally get the lute and can induce Rhaps safely. They wanted me to give Rhaps 8cc's Dex and said she would deliver 30-60hrs after the shot. I do not feel comfortable doing that knowing what I know now and have researched. It might work well for them but at the same time I would rather follow what I KNOW works.

The GOOD news is my vet bill from last night (being as it was a after hours emergency vet call) as only $168.95. I was pleasantly shocked to see she only charged me that much, didn't even charge me for the ultrasound we did.

Justine

GoldenWood Farm · #14 04/11/13, 08:42 PM

I got the lute! Okay now the question is when do I want to do the lute/dex combo. It is about 30-36 hours right? I know it can be earlier or a bit later but Susie I believe you usually say 30-36 hours. Is that when they start labor or when you actually have kids on the ground?

Justine

yarrow · #15 04/11/13, 09:42 PM

I expect to have them in the very least..early labor at the 30hour mark..if not ctive labor/kids...Ruthie was done at 31hours, yesterday...I like late afternoon, early vening kids..so I give the drugs around 9am...puts us having kids between 3pm and 9pm....
remember DEEP IM..I do it in the big muscle on the back leg...2cc lute..5 cc syringe of dex

glad you got lute...are you sure the babies don't need another day or two to bake...if she is stable

susie

GoldenWood Farm · #16 04/11/13, 10:14 PM

I went ahead and induced her at 7:30-7:45pm. She isn't stable enough for me to feel comfortable waiting, I can't go more than three hours without her needing a boost again. She hasn't had an appetite for her grain either and I have been syringing her calcium carbonate for the past few days down her to make sure she gets it. I figure I should be having kids by Saturday morning which will put her at 146 days which I feel comfortable with. The vet when we did the ultrasound said the kids looked to be in the 4-5lbs range which for mini kids isn't a bad size at all.

I honestly feel in my gut she is getting closer to kidding on her own anyways. Her vulva has gotten much more lax/poochy and her belly had dropped last night. I felt comfortable going ahead and inducing, I did the 2cc's lute and 5cc's dex in her big back muscle (deep in the muscle). She is now in a kidding pen flanked by two of her other buddies also in kidding pens. I will keep y'all updated on everyone's progress.

Justine

yarrow · #17 04/11/13, 10:45 PM

day 146 for mini kids isn't really early...little sweet tea only weighed...barely..3lbs..full term, full size nubian...,so 4-5lbs..no bad at all...keep us updated

good luck
susie

GoldenWood Farm · #18 04/12/13, 12:13 AM

I will for sure keep you guys updated

. Rhaps so far is laying down and comfortable, she actually took her mix (instead of PG I am doing 2 parts Karo syrup and 1 part molasses...doesn't burn) instead of fighting me tooth and nail. So far the other two preggo ladies (Mia and Penny) are sitting tight and not showing any interest in having any birthing action.

I am getting a bit of shut eye before my 2am check.

Justine

Minelson · #19 04/12/13, 06:11 AM

What about Zoe Bird? Isn't today her due date?

GoldenWood Farm · #20 04/12/13, 09:18 AM

Today is Zoe Bird's due date but she hasn't started filling her udder yet, belly hasn't dropped and while her ligs are getting softer she just isn't close yet. Mia and Penny seem/feel closer to me than Zoe right now. Rhaps is doing fine this morning, her udder is filling up a bit more than it was. Nobody is in active labor or even acting close to it...Mia is now 151 days

.

Justine