Pasturing goats with poultry and waterfowl

[sriston]

We free-range our poultry and waterfowl on our fenced 2 1/2 acre homestead. I am planning on buying 2 Dwarf Nigerian goats from a friend in a couple of weeks. The goats will share the pasture and the large communal barn with the other barnyard residents. Everyone gets securely locked in the barn at night and turned out in the morning.

I read somewhere that layer pellets are toxic for goats. I am concerned about this because I know that eventually my little goats will eat some. We have our flock food custom made from our own grains and sunflower seeds (grown by us) but we do have the grain mill add in layer pellets. Our food ratio is about 60% grains and 40% pellets.

Is it true that layer pellets are toxic for goats, and if so, how does a person keep their goats from accidentally eating any? I know nothing about goats, so I appreciate any and all advice.

[prairiedog]

I don't know that they are toxic what usually happens is they gobble it down and end up with a bad case of bloat and the runs. You need a place the goats can't get to to put down the pellets for the birds. Also make sure the goats have a water source that is not fouled by the fowl.

[mygoat]

They are toxic in the sense that goats gorging themselves on any grain source is at extreme high risk for bloat, enterotoxemia, and death. Make a feeder that the goats cannot get to. And they WILL bash their heads against it, stand on it, and otherwise try to break it to get to the feed if they can see it.

The main issue will be water. Keeping ducks from swimming in water is absolutely mandatory. Especially if you ever wish to milk nigies. Milk is 87% water, and trust me - goats will choose NOT to drink if the water is fouled. This can cause them to stop making milk, aside from other obvious problems. We choose to keep ducks out of the goat pen.

[sriston]

The chicken/duck/goose feeder is in the barn. It is made out of 4" PVC pipes with 2" food ports. The watering system for the chickens is also a pipe system equipped with poultry watering nipples. The ducks and geese seem to drink mostly from the pond. No poultry food is ever on the ground (on purpose, anyway). I planned on a hay rack for the goats and just using a horse water bucket mounted on the wall for the goats.

[mygoat]

Originally Posted by sriston

The chicken/duck/goose feeder is in the barn. It is made out of 4" PVC pipes with 2" food ports. The watering system for the chickens is also a pipe system equipped with poultry watering nipples. The ducks and geese seem to drink mostly from the pond. No poultry food is ever on the ground (on purpose, anyway). I planned on a hay rack for the goats and just using a horse water bucket mounted on the wall for the goats.

Trust me, the ducks will use the goat bucket if they can reach it. And the PVC feeder will be bashed to heck until it spills or breaks.

[Alice In TX/MO]

I simply would not house goats with birds.

[mygoat]

Our chickens free range, and they get in the goat pen. Nothing we can do to stop them. It's no problem, but the chicken food is on the other side of the fence in the chicken yard, where goats cannot access.

Sometimes a scovy duck will get in the goat pen... She's caught and has her wings trimmed, then gets tossed back out. One duck will wreak havoc on the waterers.

[sriston]

I pretty much figured my ducks would eventually find the goat water bucket. LOL. Keeping the bucket clean won't be too much trouble because the barn is right by the house and easy access to the well. I was worried about the chicken food poisoning them. I really don't want to do any cross fencing or separate pens, so I may have to give up wanting my two little goats.

[Lorelai]

Originally Posted by sriston

I pretty much figured my ducks would eventually find the goat water bucket. LOL. Keeping the bucket clean won't be too much trouble because the barn is right by the house and easy access to the well. I was worried about the chicken food poisoning them. I really don't want to do any cross fencing or separate pens, so I may have to give up wanting my two little goats.

If you don't want to put up any permanent fencing, we've had really great success with electronet. It's portable and versatile, and our goats only challenge it if they are pretty certain the fencer is turned off. I've never seen them try to jump it, or anything like that. The occasional chicken will get over their electronet (separate from the goats), but we do clip their wings. And usually they've gone under it, due to uneven terrain, and not over it. Just a thought... it might work for you.

[mygoat]

Making a little area for the chicken feed that is goat proof wouldn't be difficult or require much money/time/effort. The problem would mainly be with the ducks and water...

[Alice In TX/MO]

I'd give up the ducks. Grubby creatures.

[motdaugrnds]

I see no reason why "pasturing" all your fowl with goats would be problematic; however, you really need to place the goats' water up high enough so the water fowl cannot get their bills into it. (I placed a water bucket on a 1-1/2 ft table that baby goats could jump onto and older goats can reach over into. This kept geese out of it and kept it clean. The main watering buckets I hang inside the barn on the walls up high enough so goats' cannot spoil it.)

I've actually seen ducks (muscovy) follow my goats around during hot weather so as to jump up and catch the flies that bother the goats.

Housing goats with fowl is a different story..at least for me. I don't want my fowl roosting over the goats' feeder bins nor defacating on anything they might eat. I lock my fowl (Brown Chinese geese, chickens and guineas) up in their own house every night with a divider that keeps the geese out of one section, while leaving the goats out to free-range if they want to....unless it is kidding time. Then the does get locked up at night.

The fowl are helpful during the day as they do go inside the barn and scratch. This keeps bugs out and the bedding aired; however, they venture over my 6 acres as do the goats. (So far our 20 guineas have not ventured off the place, which is quite unusual for guineas...knock on wood.)

[mygoat]

I can't think of a way to keep ducks out of goat water. My 'scovies hop up on any surface and fly, so putting a bucket 'up' somewhere wouldn't work. And since these are nigies, the level the bucket would be at would be right at duck level even if hung on a fence. My WH's dont' get up on stuff or fly, so maybe if that's the species of ducks, putting the bucket up on something may work. Impossible to say.

We've had geese, currently still have muscovies and WH's. We just keep the waterfowl separate. And if our waterer is along afenceline, we zip tie snow fence to the outside of the fencing to keep the ducks/geese from reaching through the fencing mesh and into the water, because they can really gunk it up without even being able to SWIM in it. Blegh.

[MeanestMommy]

If you're only looking at owning the two goats, I think you can make it work without cross-fencing, but you won't be able to just turn the goats loose and call it good.

The poultry food isn't exactly good for the goats, but it certainly isn't deadly (unless they bloat and you don't catch it). Mine broke into the feed room more than once and gorged on it. My daughter also mixed up the food bins and gave her goats layer pellets for two days before i caught it. It happens to almost everyone at some point and I've never heard of a goat dying from eating poultry feed.

Before we bought our current property, we had 2 nigies, chickens, ducks, and geese all sharing our a half acre yard. The chickens had their own coop but the other animals all bedded down together under a covered area.

We addressed the food issue by simply not free-feeding everyone 24/7. In the morning, the goats were tethered and given their feed and hay while the birds were given as much as they could eat in 15min. After that time, we turned the goats loose and repeated the routine in the evening. You could just let the goats out of the barn first and then feed everyone. The PVC system would definitely get broken by the goats, however.

We solved the water problem by putting a 5gal water bucket on top of an old picnic table. The goats could get to it without a problem and the ducks/geese had zero interest in even trying to access it. A few of the chickens would perch on the bucket and drink, but that was never an issue since they don't bathe in it. Occasionally the bucket got dumped over, but not often enough to make much of a difference. Worst case senario, a mounting system could always be rigged up.

[Clovers_Clan]

If the layer pellets are medicated(i.e. coccidiastat) it could be toxic.

Have you considered putting the ducks in a chicken tractor? They could graze the pasture while keeping their mess to a minimum and fertilizing the pasture without tearing it up. If its just a few, a small kiddie pool of water could keep their feathers healthy. Or maybe just rotate the tractor around the pond's edge?

As for the chickens, they're great with goats. Keep manure scratched up, take care of ticks and pests. Keeping NDs out of the chicken feed is going to be difficult though, unless they are completely fenced separately. They're so close to the same size, the goats would figure out how to squeeze in. Can your chickens fly well? Maybe a stall the chickens fly in and out of? MeanestMommy's idea of separating during feeding time and leaving the chickens to scratch the rest of the day sounds like good management.

[luckyinkentucky]

I don't know how your property is laid out, maybe you could toss the chicken feed on the outside of the fence where the goats are. Thats what I do, which still lets the chickens fly in and help clean the goat barn. I have their water buckets hung up, which doesn't really matter since all I have are chickens, not ducks (no pond yet). I don't see that it has hurt my goats with just the chickens roaming with them but I don't throw any chicken feed (which is corn here, not pellets) into the space that the goats can access.

[sriston]

Thanks for all of the responses. MeanestMommy was especially an insight. I am going to go ahead and get my two little goat gals after all. Dealing with watering issues should be minimal, and even though we have a feeding system, the flock does not have food available at all times. Since they are pastured, their main source of food comes from whatever they find in the pasture and woods. At this time of the year, we are feeding them only late in the morning. They know when it's feeding time; they all come to the feed room. :-) Although they all share the barn, they do have separate sleeping areas of their own choice. The ducks and geese (including their babies) sleep in the same area. They choose their own area and have never bedded down anywhere but there for the past several years. The chickens have roosts that go to the ceiling on the opposite side of the barn. The barn has several stalls, and I plan on using one of the stalls for the goats. The barn also has two open stalls (three sided) and although I know those would be suitable for the goats, I would prefer to secure them inside at night.

I've never had goats before and I am really looking forward to having some. They have such captivating personalities! I am getting two little girls; I don't want the hassle of babies until I am more experienced in goat keeping. If all goes well, maybe next year I will expand my herd.

I have seen mention of mineral consumption. Should I buy a mineral block and place it somewhere? What about salt blocks- do they need one? Are these the same blocks that cows/horses use? As far as food, I plan on buying goat food from TSC.

[Alice In TX/MO]

Glad you are making the decision and have a strategy to get goats. They are wonderful creatures.

No blocks for goats. They have smooth tongues and can't get enough mineral from a solid block. Also, the solid blocks don't have the right amount of copper.

You need a high copper loose mineral. Cargill's Right Now - Onyx is the one I use mostly. It comes in different formulations. Onyx is the high copper one.

I also have used Purina's goat mineral. I still have to supplement with copper boluses, as our hay/feed is copper deficient.

[sriston]

Thank you, Alice. I had no idea that goats had smooth tongues.